Books are Better than Business Cards with Judy Hoberman

hey welcome to the publish promote profit podcast with me rob kosberg every week i interview thought leaders and experts who have used the book to grow their income and their impact so tune in weekly for these interviews so you can learn how to use your own best-selling book and go from hunting for clients and opportunities to instead being the hunted all right hey everybody rob kosberg here excited to be with you today for another episode of publish promote profit the podcast have a great guest for you today uh judy oberman judy and i i think may have met we both think we may have met but certainly i think we’ve run across each other other in the past and uh judy is an award-winning international speaker of course best-selling author trainer and leading authority on women in leadership three decades in business she combines wisdom and humor and we’ll get to enjoy some of that today with her behavior shaping insights to impact audiences of ten thousand and even as small as one-on-one through executive coaching judy’s mission to help one woman a day by following an important philosophy and i love this women want to be treated equally not identically judy thanks so much and welcome to publish row profit thank you so much rob i’m excited to be here and i couldn’t wait for today yay well thank you great to have you on you are a best-selling author of numerous books i know how tough it is to write a book and so you know i want to ask you questions about your books i want to ask you questions about your business uh probably the the best place for me to begin and i’m happy to go in any direction that you like but i would really love to know you’ve obviously written several books tell me how have your books led great opportunity in your path how have they helped you to get your message of you know making a difference to women selling in a skirt or walking on the glass floor so to speak so when i wrote selling in a skirt it was i didn’t care if it was best-selling or anything i just wanted to have something you know because it was a brand new business and when i first saw my book in print it was when i was at a very large conference that’s when it was delivered it was supposed to be at my house like a month before and of course you know things happen so when i opened up the box and i saw everything i started to cry because i was like so overwhelmed with this but and it and i sold a ton of books that day because i was the keynote so it worked but when i the reason i wrote the book is because i wanted to use it as a calling card for people that i had not met or people that i had just met it didn’t matter i just wanted to get the book in the hands of people again being the number one bestseller was not even in my radar anyway so i remember meeting the ceo at an event and he said you know we have to get something together you know like what you’re doing is great blah blah blah and a lot of people say that you know anyway so i sent him a copy of the book but on page 119 i in bright pink ink i said call me when you get to this page i’ll take you to lunch and so i said you know i’ll give you a call blah blah so a couple of weeks later i hadn’t heard from him so i called and i said hey i just wanted to know did you get my book and he said yes loved the book and i said really and i said what was your favorite part he said i loved your stories because i could hear you in the book which is true most people say that so i said great did you read everything he said cover to cover and i said okay so what about page 119 because it was about bringing more women into the industry so he said page 119. i said do you have the book candy and he said yeah let me get it he opens the book and you hear you know turning the page in and it’s dead silence and he said i must have missed that page i’m like i’m sure you did i mean it was bright pink writing well anyway long story short he took me to lunch and we ended up doing business but i mean it was a calling card that’s what it was that’s why i that’s why the book was all about and i you know i give the book away i do sell the book of course as well but i’ve given the books away um i do a lot of things with non-profits and i’ll give them copies of the books because i truly believe there’s a message in in all my books that i really believe people should have women and men because it’s even though it says selling in a skirt it also the subtitle is the secrets women don’t know they know about sales and what men should know too that’s right on the bottom so it talks about men love it yeah so it brought me business but it was funny how it came about you know great story i loved the idea i mean this is something that we talk to our clients about pretty regularly i love the idea number one of sending your book ahead of you right because especially if you’re trying to build a relationship with someone you want to frame the conversation not as the needy person you know i i want to speak at your conference or i want to work with your corporation but more the expert who can serve and help and it sounds like that’s exactly kind of what you did and what you do with your book can you maybe talk a little bit more about that yeah you know sometimes you’re trying to figure things out like you’re building a new program or whatever and what i do a lot of times is i’ll take a chapter of my book and and make it into a pdf and i’ll send it out and i’ll say do me a favor read this or so and so but i did a survey and i picked 300 of my first connections on linkedin but i’m not talking about people that say oh judy i love you so much whatever you need it wasn’t that it was people that are truly colleagues you know that they would do business if they found the reason to do it so what i did was i asked three questions first i asked permission i always ask permission can i send a survey and of course a hundred percent of 300 people said yes wow yeah so then i send out these the three questions two were yes or no and one was really the meat of the whole thing and so i think about 70 something percent responded which is also great so then i sent a copy of my chapter of walking on the glass floor about courage and i thank them for their courage to actually address this very important topic and so then they had the copy of the courage chapter and then when everything was done i sent out you know the survey results and it was really you know a nice pie chart and everything that you know that they needed and then i just said to them you know knowing how important this is and knowing how much courage it took who should i be talking to and i got tons of introductions from that and then people said do you think you could have the book you know sent here so all of my women could read it or can you do a talk about you know what all of this means so all of my men and women can do it and then i created the training program that went along with the book which had exactly what they told me that they needed in the training that’s what the survey was about so you so you have like all different ways that you can do the business but you don’t just go ahead and say hey you know what rob you know you’re awesome so we buy my book it doesn’t work like that that’s not what business is that is brilliant so if i could pry just a little about that i mean you must have done some business directly with you said that those people were kind of ideal prospects colleagues did you end up speaking for any of their places did you end up actually do coaching i mean that just is a brilliant strategy how did it end up working for you well like i said one of the questions was what would this initiative have to include for you to want to you know for you to be interested in it and so what i got was executive coaching gigs i got speaking engagements i got sales and leadership training then also somebody asked me to be on their board and you know all different things because they realize that what i was trying to do wasn’t i wasn’t going after the business first i was going after what would make sense for them and that’s the whole secret even with the the books you know it’s it’s like when somebody says to you when you’re doing the title and you’re doing the cover and you’re doing you know everything about it and when somebody thumbs through it it has to be something that’s going to draw them in and so i always make sure that what i do is what’s in it for them it’s not what’s in it for me because if it’s what’s in it for me it’s going to be nowhere yeah so i’m very careful very intentional about making sure because this is how i am this is who i am that it’s not about me it never has been about me it’s always about others so congrats that’s that’s fantastic you know i quote zig ziglar often everyone’s listening to the same radio station w-i-i-f-m what’s in it for me and that’s a great you know what you just described for anybody listening is a beautiful organic strategy doesn’t cost anything to implement the strategy you don’t even need to have your your book completed you can have one great chapter of your book done that addresses the issue the main issue and here you are you know you didn’t put a dollar amount on it but you know executive coaching leadership all those kinds of things that had to be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of income by just serving people asking questions and not spending a dollar on facebook ads or google ads or anything just using your book love it love it yeah that’s worth the price of admission right there totally when i first moved to dallas that was in 2007 i think i moved here yeah 2007. we had a corporate position i was recruited here and then i ended up leaving and that’s when all the books came out and whatever but i remember when i was networking i would go and talk to people and they would say to me i’m a servant leader and i’m like okay i had no idea what they were talking about the next person would say yeah i said well what do you do i’m a servant leader so after like the fourth or fifth person i said what do you mean you’re a servant leader what does that actually mean and they said you don’t know what being a servant leader is well let me describe it and i said oh i do that all the time i didn’t know you had to be have a title that said you were a servant leader so yeah you know if you just do the things that are right you know you don’t have to announce that you’re authentic you don’t have to announce you have high integrity you have to announce you’re a servant leader you just do you just do it and so the book actually gives you that more exposure to show you know when you give you don’t give with the expectation of receiving you give if something comes back to you awesome and it usually does but that’s not why you give so yep well said thank you thanks all right let’s leave the book for just a minute because that’s probably a good segue i want to come back to it because you know i’m the book guy so why not right but but tell me what’s the big vision for your business you know i love kind of the mission statement the stuff that i’ve read on your website but maybe you could tell us what is the vision whether it’s the helping you know one woman at a time or thinking more globally like what are you trying to accomplish with your writing with your teaching with your training etc it’s always been about helping one woman a day and the reason i say that is because as i was coming up through the ranks there were no women it was me and so there was that wasn’t anybody that not necessarily physically looked like me but had the same kind of challenges that i had you know there were plenty of men that were single dads i was a single mom but it’s still different and so if i could help one woman a day exponentially that’s a lot of women and so what i want to do is i want to give women the tools that they need so that they can be successful whatever their definition is my big vision is actually to create you know more of that and still one woman a day but i get called to different i don’t know like tugs on my shoulder like here’s the entrepreneurs that i work with now i’m being called to executive women so i’m not leaving the entrepreneurs because that’s who i am but i’m going to add that so my big vision is really to start working with executive women and get them to where they need to be as well so whether it means giving them the the health that they need and i don’t just mean physical health it could be mental health spiritual health financial health but to get them in a healthy position so that they can move forward right because a lot of times women that are in executive positions in corporations sometimes they’re not in the right position sometimes they’re given a position and they have no idea how they even got it and so a lot of times we struggle with where are we and what are we supposed to do what about all this you know this thing called balance so that’s one of my big visions but i’m also you know we’re in the process of rolling out sales programs for entrepreneurs for women so designed by women for women it’s not to say that men don’t take the course because they do yeah but there’s very few courses that are really by women for women so because that’s the vision for 2021 love it what you mentioned that when you were coming up you were kind of alone right you didn’t come up amongst a group of peers and so that must have been challenging what was that like kind of in a male dominated industry and can you talk a little bit about that that the industry that you were in and what that looked like well i first started on commercial roofing okay so we just go there i started commercial moving i was the only female pretty male dominated i’d say yes very male dominated but it was very interesting to me because they hired me because they wanted me to be the face of the company i was young i had no idea what that meant until i started having to climb up ladders and when i would have to climb up ladders you know this was in the time where women wore skirts and dresses all the time and they told me i always had to wear a skirt and don’t worry because it’d always be somebody underneath you in case you fell you know it was that kind of stuff so that’s a little creepy you think yeah so obviously it didn’t last much longer and i’ll tell you the roofers were much kinder and much more of gentlemen than the you know the management so the roofers would always protect me and make sure that i was safe and so on but that didn’t last you know very long but i got into financial services and insurance and again i was the only female what i do know is originally i was hired because i was female i do know that because i remember hearing them say okay we can check off the box and when she doesn’t make it we can say we had one wow i remember hearing all of that yeah and then they would tell me you are too much of a girl you ask too many questions you take too long you know blah blah blah blah blah to me all i kept hearing other than the blah blah was just build relationships just keep building relationships and that’s what i did and when i started to be successful they would say to me how did you do that why did they buy that how are they staying on the books can you show me how to do that and so things started to change a little bit and then when i was in charge of doing recruiting because i had my own agencies a lot of women came in and they couldn’t understand how i did that either so it was a learning curve for everybody and that’s why i say women want to be treated equally not identically it is my tagline because we just want the same opportunities we don’t want to be men we don’t it’s too confusing for everybody you want to be us just open up a door for us because you can’t do this by yourself and it was a little tough but i wouldn’t change anything i really wouldn’t i wouldn’t change anything because i wouldn’t have my company the way it is and i wouldn’t know the things that i know and i have a really good sense of humor about a lot of things that’s good that’s good you kept your sense of humor through it all the time you know i think you’re right i mean i think about many negative experiences that i’ve been through and uh and quite frankly some of the more difficult business experiences led me to exactly where i am today which i’m so grateful for and i would have never gotten here had it not been for those negative experiences so you know i mean it i don’t want to be cliche about it right but i mean we are a product of our past of our history and you know if if we don’t like learn those lessons and then have something to share then maybe it wasn’t worth anything but sometimes you have to rewind tapes yeah you know because sometimes they bring back memories like when i did i did a ted talk and when i did my ted talk i just it was about being outside the lines so that was the theme and mine was about being prejudged because i’ve always been prejudged my entire life people thought i was intimidating people thought i was unapproachable because they didn’t get to know me i am an introvert by nature and so if you don’t start talking to me first i may not start talking to you so you think i’m aloof and whatever anyway when i decided to do that a story came to me that i was going to have to tell and it was about my father and it was the very first time that i told the story out loud in a ted talk wow wow and so as i was getting ready for this and doing a ted talk is very different than writing a book because when you write a book you can disappear when you’re doing a ted talk you’re right there you’re right there in the lights and the videos and everything else so as i’m practicing this i couldn’t get through it at all i mean i got through like the first three or four minutes and then i couldn’t get through it so a friend of mine who’s also a coach she said to me you can’t talk about yourself you have to talk about as if it’s someone else and so that’s what i did and i also talked to a friend of mine who does nlp and she gave me all these things to do before i got on stage and so everything was working and whatever and i was really good i started to feel it coming up like that i couldn’t breathe anymore and i would just you know take a deep breath and it went back down i was very good to the very end and then i burst into tears but i was already done that’s okay though right so my point is that if it was my book i could have written this and it’s still drawn you in but it wouldn’t have been as painful when i did it in person it’s very different so i mean it was probably one of the best things i ever did and so now i could say i did that because i’m not going to do another one why you’ve done it yeah really i don’t need to do another one but if you say you’re going to write another book i might say no not now but i probably will write another book because it’s very different and i could do that and i could you know just sit down and say okay i’m going to write a book yeah but yeah i want to ask about the writing another book idea but before you mention your ted talk i was on your website you have tons of media appearances we have our own pr team at bestseller publishing and so we we know how hard it is to book clients for tv radio podcasts we do it every day did you use your book to get those placements like what was the connection between you getting on media and your book uh or was there not and how did you do it so originally no it wasn’t like selling in a skirt didn’t get me on any of the podcast with my back then it was radio shows and whatever it did get me on a couple but not really it wasn’t really what we weren’t promoting because remember i didn’t care if it was a bestseller it was really more about this when i wrote walking on the glass floor we did a whole pr campaign and we had there was a i can’t remember what the website was but if you had to get at least 100 people that followed you and they would tally up what their social reach was and so when the books came out you know you could just everybody just hit send and so everybody would start blasting out about it well we became a bestseller because of that right but again to me you know somebody said well just pay me 10 000 i’ll make you number one bestseller i’m like i don’t want it that badly yeah it wasn’t like that but with that book because we did a whole pr campaign i did get on tons and tons and tons of podcasts and i we did get lots of write-ups and i was given the nod by thrive global as one of the women to watch yeah for women’s international day so it was that kind of stuff so it was pretty awesome it really was it was pretty awesome but again it was a concerted effort it wasn’t just you can’t do this by yourself you can’t you have to have other people that are willing to support you and i’m not afraid to ask yeah no that’s beautiful you know you’re you’re a humble person and i say that to obviously don’t know you in day-to-day life but i say that because you know your desire was to help people and it wasn’t about the accolades of being a number one bestseller or the accolades of being on media now with that said you know impact is what you’re looking for right and so you know media gets you in front of people and the more people that buy your books the more people that you can impact and the more people that you reach the more people that that will be changed and i’m sure that because of that effort with walking on the glass floor i’m sure many many more people were impacted simply because they saw you everywhere right i mean do you have any stories about that was there any stories about people that heard you somewhere or saw you somewhere speaking etc that was like yes this really helped me or you know that kind of motivated or inspired you yeah there’s i mean there’s a lot of people that you know there’s one story in particular which was kind of i don’t even know if i want to say it was weird but it was weird yeah because we were doing um a big training for one of the insurance companies and there were probably a hundred women and we were doing it virtually so when you have a hundred women and you’re on the big screen when you look out there you see part of the room you know because you can’t see everything and so the person that was there kept turning the laptop so i could see them because they were all talking to me well there was one woman that said can you turn the camera this way she was all the way to my left and she said to me we know each other better than you think we do you know i had never met her before i had never seen her before okay not never and i said okay now remember you’re on the big screen so you have to have a poker face you cannot be like what right okay anyway so i’m like okay and she said so let me tell you my story i said okay she said when i was uh when i graduated college i have a degree in archaeology and it didn’t go anywhere so i went to music education and so i want to get a job as a music teacher and my husband wouldn’t allow it he just wouldn’t allow it and so he was physically violent to her and this is what she’s telling me again when somebody says that to you you know and you can’t so i’m just sitting here hanging onto my chair so then she said but that’s not the story i’m like okay so she said so i went back to school and i decided that i was gonna do i can’t remember what the second piece was but then my sister gave me a book my sister lives in dallas and she gave me this book to read and when i read the book i thought i have to go into financial services still didn’t hear didn’t get it nothing and so she said i went into financial services this time my husband really did a number on me and i finally had the courage to leave him because i knew that if i would just follow what this book said i knew i could be successful even if i was by myself and she holds up the book wow i burst into tears no more no more poker face for you there was none and she said to me so i owe my life to you well what are you saying i mean i i mean right now i could feel it but you know what do you say you know when you hear something like that which you would how would anybody hear that you wouldn’t hear that and how would she so it was just like and if i could have like hugged her i would have hugged her but obviously we were in you know two different parts of the country but you get things like that when people see you on a news program or they hear you on a radio show and they say oh my goodness it’s really you and i’m like it’s i’m nothing different than what you are i’m just not you know so yeah there’s lots of stories like that and i just you know i hold on to them because they’re so important to me they really are so important oh you should i got a little i felt it coming up in my throat right honestly i was like i know i know what that’s like i’m sure you hear it all the time it’s just the same it’s the same thing everybody hears it but people forget it you can’t forget it that’s the thing you have to remember because it’s those things that brought you to the dance and you shouldn’t forget them yeah i love that now that was your first book that was selling in a skirt yeah okay and i love that title i also saw you had some other cool catchy titles i think on more it was either blog post or individual chapters one was uh how to outsell every man in your office i love that one it’s a special report yeah the special report beautiful i saw you had like multiple special reports that one stood out to me i thought that was fantastic you do a great job with hooking people i feel something that again you know the whole what’s in it for me right you need to you need to address people where they’re at with the title of a book with the subtitle of a book etc any particular strategies that you use or any particular process that you use to come up with a cool title like selling in a skirt or like how to outsell every man in your you know like anything that you kind of do or or use to put those together i do a brain dump i really do i take a piece i have a pad and paper and i have other people that’ll sit there and just write down everything that you could think of that’s sales or anything you know whatever and we all you know it’s like okay we’re close but we’re not close enough you know when it’s right but i remember many many years ago i was opening up a high-end stationery store and we had to come up with a name you didn’t want to be the gift this or whatever so we all did this we all wrote things down anything that had to do with stationery anything that had to do with gifts anything anything and so after hours of doing this i took my pad and i threw it down and i said i am not doing this anymore i have writer’s cramp i went oh my god that’s the name and the name of my stationery store was the writer’s crown so you know that’s a lot of times what we do is you know we’ll say something like yeah i don’t know but with selling in a skirt it’s an acronym yeah i saw that right so when you think about what are the problems that women have well i had every one of those problems and when you mushed them around which is a very technical term it spelled out the word skirt yeah go and go through them go through okay so it’s it’s standing out it’s keys to success inspiration results and time management nice so it’s spelled skirt how convenient so i’m female i’m selling so why don’t i sell in a skirt but sometimes the men will say to me well i don’t wear a skirt can i wear a kilt and you know all that funny stuff and i’m like it has nothing to do with the article of clothing right but in reality you have to be careful how you brand yourself because everywhere i go i have to wear a skirt because people will call me out on it they have no kidding they’re like you can’t sell in jeans i said my next book is going to be selling in pajamas you know oh that’s something in yoga pants yeah so yeah love that now i read the how to outsell every man in your office and and talked about that and selling a skirt now you i’ve mentioned before you you have a wonderful disposition easy to talk to you know fun do you ever get a situation where you know people think you’re different than you are because you do have kind of you know the i tell my clients this is the way to do it like if you believe something don’t worry about the opposition viewpoint take a stand even if it provokes some negative emotion and i just wondered like do some of these titles provoke some negative emotion or at least like the preconceived idea of what judy’s like well that’s another whole story because like i said growing up everybody thought i was intimidating because they didn’t give me this opportunity but i will tell you some there was a company the the woman that was in charge of programming she came up to me at an event we were both displaying at this big event and she said to me i just have to tell you i hate the title of your your company and your book i’m like what she said selling in a skirt i hate it i’m like what do you mean you hate it she said it’s very sexist and i said well i don’t think so but i hear you and thank you for letting me know that millions of people no one has ever said this before anyway so they decide they want to bring me in to speak and i could see her cringing because she has to introduce me oh no so she asked me for my bio and i think i put selling in a skirt i don’t know 20 times judy i did i did because she was but she was rude about it she wasn’t even kind to it she was rude and i thought okay so i you know he went ahead and gave it to her huh she’s looking at it she’s and you can hear her like gulp so our company is still in skirt you know and i just thought okay okay but i mean the talk went great and she really she thanked me and they did bring me back again and i didn’t do it the second time but um yeah so i it’s more like that you know most people don’t really what okay here’s what they do say why isn’t your company called judy hoberman and i said because it’s not about me it’s never been about me and it’s not about me and so they said i know you know you should talk about yourself and like right yeah yeah or you’ll turn people off maybe or you know and i don’t agree with any of that i’m like look if you believe something and you’re trying to get a message out then don’t worry if it’s going to provoke some negative emotion those people aren’t going to buy from you anyway that’s correct and beside the fact people remember selling in a skirt more than anything people that have heard it when i first brought it out in 2009 that when the book first came out i think it was 2011 when the book came out but since 2009 when i started talking about selling into skirt people have come up to me and they said i heard you speak when you first started and he’s and they said i remember everything that you said and i remember the name of your company yeah okay there’s nothing better than that that’s right that’s exactly right no it’s very memorable and that’s why i want to ask you specifically about how you come up with titles or subtitles because you know that’s just a huge mistake it’s the first and and oftentimes the biggest mistake that people make because you know if you don’t have something that’s a great hook they’ll never get to page one you know they’ll just move on to the next book you know that you got what 2.8 seconds or something to get their attention on amazon anyway so you better do a good job with it yeah so great great talking to you tell me what what am i missing what have i forgotten to ask or what else would you like to share so should i tell you how my book got written yes there you go tell me about the problems you had challenges you may have had yes please do that’s a good one yeah so my book my business coach at the time she was my very first female business coach i mean she was the one that helped me develop selling in a skirt and you know she had an office it was all white boards and whiteboards make me nervous anyway because i’m not that person i’m an implementer i’m not the strategist and she’s a strategist anyway so first she said to me where do you want to end up and i said well i want to end up with this really cool bar on a very remote island but it’s only for you know amazing people and she said okay so how do you how do you want to get there and i said buy plane she said no how do you want to get there i said boat she goes judy listen to me how do you want to get there and then i realized what she was saying so then we came up with selling in a skirt and how it was going to be and she said so the very first thing you need to do is you need to write a book and i said i’m not writing a book not on my radar don’t care about it she said no no listen you have so many years of experience let’s get it out let’s organize it get it out i said not doing it she said okay don’t write a book how about if you just if you were going to ever write a book why don’t you just write the the chapters what they would include and so i never said yes i went um i know where this is going well kind of sort of so here we are the next visit that we have and so she says to me you know we did our thing and at the end she said to me so read it to me i said read what she said the chapters and i had nothing to say she said so you didn’t do it did you i said no she said okay can you do me a favor i said absolutely she said do you know the busiest street in dallas and i said i know i could find it she said okay i want you to get in your car i want you to drive to that busy intersection i want you to roll down your window and i want you to take your wallet and throw it out i want you to roll up your window and drive home i said well that’s stupid she goes that’s what you do to me every week and all of a sudden i thought i have disrespected somebody so badly that that’s how she told me wow and so the next week i had my chapters written wow nice nice because it took somebody to really like say okay get over yourself we’re going to do this and so you know i always say if you’re going to hire a coach you might as well listen to them yeah i have a similar story in one sense in 2009 when my real estate related company failed miserably i don’t know if there’s another way to fail by the way maybe you can fail happily but i i couldn’t and i asked a couple of mentors what they would do if they were in my situation because i was branding myself in a new way they they told me also that i should write a book and and it took me about 18 months i don’t know how long it took you but it took me about 18 months from beginning of 2008 to the end of 2009 to actually get that accomplished and it changed obviously changed my life since then you know i’ve obviously written several my own but a thousand plus four clients that we’ve helped so i’m glad you took eventually took her advice yeah it only took me it took me about four months to write my book my second book i wrote like in a weekend because my the woman that was going to be my copy editor she said stop writing a book write 80 blog posts that’s all it’s just 80 blog posts that you need to write like i can do that so you are you a natural writer do you write every day or well i always post on social media and there’s usually you know like a good amount of stuff that i’m saying yes i love to write sometimes i get stuck on the first word like how do i start it once i get that i’m like you know i could just do the whole thing yeah but i love to write i do that’s beautiful a lot of people are listening to that going i hate you [Laughter] nah you know just if you follow me on social media you will see exactly what i do every single day that i post every day before 7 a.m central time every single day well for those of you listening and you’re thinking well judy she has all of the ability i am not a natural writer it becomes very difficult for me so believe me you can do it whether you are a natural writer or not well i wasn’t always a natural writer i became a natural right it sounds like that’s what happened actually and it sounds like you know you said something about yourself a few minutes ago you said that you’re more an implementer than the strategist and of course we all have different strengths and weaknesses but you know i have found that people that are implementers are the most successful people obviously you have gifts to strategize and all of that clearly but if you’re willing to implement and get your hands dirty and really put the work in then man you can develop some incredible talents and you obviously have well thank you i appreciate that yeah strategy is like [Music] not as fun as implementing i guess yeah i just like just tell me where to show up i’m there you know beautiful so judy where can people go to learn about you maybe get your materials book you for speaking whatever it is give us a few places and tell us kind of what’s next on your radar also so you can go to my website which is selling in a skirt.com or walking on the glassfloor.com either one they’ll take you to the other one whichever one you go to i’m on all social media either under selling in a skirt or judy hoberman and not like i said i do post every single day because i really do believe that either you need to hear something that’s inspirational or something that makes you think and so i do that every single day what’s next for me is there’s not going to be a book in 2021 i know that because i have too many other things that are working right now i’m you know building this program for executive women and we have a sales program for entrepreneurs and you know just those kind of things that really i need to focus on and i know if i start to do a book then all the other stuff happens when you write a book and so i just have to really be focused but my husband keeps saying you need to write another book it’s time so i would say by the end of the year probably we’ll write we’ll start to write something good good you should because your books have led to wonderful things for you as evidenced by that you know heartwarming story that that you shared and uh there’s more people like that in the world that want to be touched by you so yeah congratulations on all your success thank you so much for being on published remote profit and of course i follow you and we will continue to do so thank you so much and thanks for the opportunity to be here i really really appreciate it my pleasure