Michael is a licensed Broker and REALTOR® with 20 years of residential brokerage and investment experience. He specializes in homes that did not sell the first time and has closed hundreds of homes. After graduating with a BBA in Finance at Gonzaga University, Michael processed consumer loans at a Federal Credit Union, moved to co-managing a portfolio at Charles Dunn Company, underwrote loans at CB Commercial, and then moved on to flipping homes. Neighbors and other agents wanted to work with him. In 1999, he opened Bradmont Realty and grew it to 10 agents. In 2005, Prudential Realty bought his brokerage, and since then, he has outsold 95% to 99.5% of all agents locally and nationally as a full-time agent. He knows how to sell and does not waste his time with things that do not help his clients. He and his family reside in Pasadena’s Bungalow Heaven Historic District.
Listen to this informative Publish. Promote. Profit. episode with Michael Bell about using a book to help home sellers.
Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show:
– Why you shouldn’t let your listing agent represent a buyer on your transaction.
– How the real estate market has never been hotter than it is right now.
– Why there is a housing problem and how it could be fixed.
– How many houses sit on the marketplace because they are overpriced.
– Why having signed copies of your book can be a helpful selling tool.
Connect with Michael:
Links Mentioned:
michaelbbell.com
Rob Kosberg:
Hey. Welcome, everybody. It’s Rob Kosberg here with another Publish. Promote. Profit. podcast, and a great guest that is using his book in some really unique and very, very specific ways. Michael Bell is The Wall Street Journal bestseller of Seller Mistakes: What You Were Never Told About Selling Your Home, there it is, and Why It Should Matter to You. Mike has successfully handled over 500 real estate transactions, millions and millions of dollars or real estate transactions with 20 years of experience, and he’s ranked in the top one tenth of 1% of realtors nationwide. Mike, so good to have you on. Mike’s a friend, and somebody that we at Best Seller Publishing have worked with. I love Mike, and I love what he’s doing with his book, so thanks for being on the podcast today, my friend.
Michael Bell:
Thank you, Rob. I appreciate it.
Rob Kosberg:
Maybe we could start with just a brief overview of what you do, who you serve specifically there in the Pasadena, San Marino area. Talk to me about that part of your business, and then I want to dive into the book and how you’re using it.
Michael Bell:
Great. Sure. Well, my name is Michael Bell. I’m a real estate broker with Sotheby’s International Realty. I’ve been selling for about 22 years. I’m in Pasadena. I have a bit of a different type of business than most realtors. Most realtors represent both buyers and sellers. I primarily only represent sellers, so I’m a listing agent.
Rob Kosberg:
So, talk to me about what that means. When you say you primarily represent sellers, I would assume that sometimes, especially as hot as the market is right now, that people would see a sign, contact you directly, not have a realtor, and sometimes maybe buy through you and through the seller. Explain how it works and how you work that’s a little bit different.
Michael Bell:
So, my book is called Seller Mistakes, and for a seller, that’s a mistake. That’s one of the big mistakes. I have a full chapter about not allowing your listing agent, your representative, represent a buyer on your transaction. It’s a conflict of interest. Attorneys can’t do it in any state. They can’t represent both sides of the transaction, both sides in a divorce, but it is legal as long as it’s disclosed. It’s actually illegal in five other states, but in California, at least, it’s not illegal as long as it’s fully disclosed. So, the reason why it rarely ever benefits the seller because it’s hard to represent both sides fairly. The seller represents, their main job is to get you the most amount of money, and the buyer’s rep, his/her responsibility is to get you the best deal. Those are in conflict of each other.
However, realtors like to do that, and buyers like it also. I’ll tell you the realtors like to do it because they make double the commission. The buyers like it because usually, they get a straight shot to the seller because the agent will tell the seller, “Hey, I already got this buyer. I’ve already met them. It’s going to be a smooth transaction, and let me represent them,” and most sellers, they succumb to that, and it’s a big mistake. I go into that. That’s a 13-page chapter in my book.
Rob Kosberg:
But that is a great point because, look. I see it going on in Florida where I am. I mean, the market is just on fire, and so you got realtors that are keeping pocket listings and working both sides of the transaction because they know they can sell it in house before it ever hits the market. So, that is going on. I’m sure that’s going on out there in Southern Cal as well.
Michael Bell:
Well, let me ask you a question. What do you think a sales price is higher, if it’s a pocket price or a market price?
Rob Kosberg:
Oh, it’s got to be market price that that’s better.
Michael Bell:
There’s no such thing as over market price. It doesn’t make sense. It’s just market price, but pocket price, it’s an old vernacular for real estate when we used to take a listing, and we’d take that listing, the piece of paper, and we’d stick it in our back pocket, and we’d tell all our buddies, and then we’d put people together. That’s the old way of doing it, and they still do this all the time. I think it needs to be… Things need to change, but I don’t think it’s going to change, and I go way into that as to why that’s probably not going to change with the National Association of Realtors and the California Association of Realtors.
Rob Kosberg:
Well, as hot as the market is, and maybe it would help to talk a little bit about what your thoughts are on the market, but as hot as the market is, I know I’ve just seen that, and as a buyer… I’m a buyer. I own a few Airbnbs, and we’re looking for more. I am looking for pocket listings as a buyer because I know I can get a better deal on it than if it were market because there’s going to be 10 contracts.
Michael Bell:
Bingo.
Rob Kosberg:
Talk to me about the market. What are you seeing in the market there in Southern California, and nationwide as well? I mean, what do you think about this, what seems to be an overheated marketplace?
Michael Bell:
Well, the market’s never been hotter. I don’t think we’ve had a bull market longer than 12 or 13 years. We’re on year 15, 16 right now. Interest rates have gone up a little bit, but at the end of the day, people still want a home. What’s really been very interesting is we thought that the Millennials wouldn’t be buying because the Millennials, they like to rent things. They like to borrow cars. They have that sharing type mentality. But what’s interesting right now, nationwide, about 40% of all the purchases are from Millennials. They want to put roots down and be a part of a community and not move around so much. So, there’s a lot of facets as to what’s driving the marketplace, but unfortunately, most of the economists are saying that this is probably going to continue going up for quite a while. I work for Sotheby’s International. We’re an international firm, so I’m always looking at values in other cities, Dubai, Tokyo, London. Those prices are two to three times more expensive than Los Angeles.
So, when people think, “Oh, LA prices can’t go any higher,” I hate to say it, but they’ve already gone higher other places a long time ago. So, it’s just interesting to see what’s going to happen. I don’t know. I’ll tell you, if I had a crystal ball, I wouldn’t be talking to you. I’d be on a beach somewhere.
Rob Kosberg:
I have a real estate background myself but have been out of from the standpoint of the way you’re in it and your expertise and knowledge, but one thing that I have seen is there is such a supply and demand issue right now where I don’t even know if demand is greater than it’s been, but supply seems to be just through the floor. There just doesn’t seem to be anything for sale. Is that true in a national level as well? I mean, I’m sharing anecdotally here in Northern Florida, but what are you seeing nationally? What are you seeing SoCal?
Michael Bell:
I’ll say what the housing problem is. It’s a housing shortage. I’ll sum it up very, very basically. Everybody wants more housing. They don’t want it in their own backyards. That’s the problem. Everybody says yes to housing. They just don’t want a big development near the beach. They don’t want a big develop down the street. They don’t want to see the shopping center being converted. Everybody’s worried about environmental impacts. They’re worried about traffic. They’re worried about noise and other pollution, so it’s really hard to get all that through. The state of California has passed a Senate bill. It’s called Senate Bill 9, which it hasn’t gone through the gyrations that I needs to go through to get codified. However, it does allow a single-family residential zone home property, or I should say lot, to be split in two, you and can do a duplex on each lot.
Rob Kosberg:
So, every single-family lot becomes the potential for a duplex?
Michael Bell:
That’s what’s coming down the pipe. That’s one way of them solving it. I mean, we could talk forever about this issue, but there’s a lot of land out there, but nobody wants to build on it. There’s all these restrictions about building on hillsides and other places. You drive around LA and people think it’s completely packed with housing. It’s not. There’s a lot of open space, but people want that open space. So, what happens? It’s a supple and demand issue. It’s too bad.
Rob Kosberg:
It’s the same out here, and part of that, I think, was the under-building that took place for several years after 2008. It just took four, five, six years for the builders to come back. At least we see that in Florida, and maybe in two or three years it’ll catch up, but I think you’re right. I think this is going to continue, even with higher interest rates for the next few years. So, it’s kind of like get in while you can, strap in, and see where values go.
Michael Bell:
Well, at the end of the day, people don’t necessarily buy it for an investment. They buy for a life event. They’re getting married. They’re moving up. They’re getting divorced. They’re downsizing. They want to be closer to their kids. There’s a job involved.
When that situation comes across, they don’t sit there and go, “Gee, whiz. I’m going to wait for the market to go down,” or anything like that. They’re going to buy, and if there’s not enough to buy, prices are just going to go up.
Rob Kosberg:
Thank you for sharing that. That’s a little bit outside what we normally talk about, but that is your expertise, and I’m always interested. So, let’s talk about the book. I think you’re a great guest for this show because we talk about, and our listeners tend to be those people that are interested in doing a book. They’re business owners. They’re entrepreneurs, and in many cases it’s easy for people to see how they can use a book to make more money.
We say repeatedly it’s not going to be the royalties that create a return on investment for a book, although there will be royalties, and there will be some money made, and probably, your book will continue to earn royalties for the next 10 or 15-plus years, which is wonderful. But you’re using your book in a way, and you have a local business. You’re not selling real estate across the country. You’re selling real estate, very, very high-end luxury real estate right there in your backyard in Pasadena. So, talk to me about how you’re using the book and how it’s helping you to get more of what it is you want, which is to help more, very specifically, sellers in your market.
Michael Bell:
In our marketplace, right now it’s the middle of 2022. People think that everything sells quickly. The good houses sell quickly that are priced right. A lot of other stuff just sits, and believe it or not, in our marketplace in the Pasadena area, about 20% of all the listings do not sell.
They get pulled off the market. They either expire or they get canceled. They get withdrawn. The people have decided not to sell. Usually, it’s a tougher type of people. Maybe it’s missing a bedroom. Maybe it doesn’t… I’m sorry, a bathroom. Maybe it only has one bathroom. Maybe it has no backyard. But usually, it’s overpriced. My book, actually, nails down the probable mistakes that most people had when they tried to sell their house. Now, there’s some agents that have listed homes, and they only work with their own buyers. They cut out other agents. That’s one of the mistakes we just talked about. There’s other mistakes that people make. They rely on open houses. There’s a very detailed chapter with data from the National Association of Realtors that shows that open houses are not only totally ineffective, they’re incredibly dangerous. I’ll tell you a quick stat.
This is the big stat that everybody can’t believe. According to the National Association of Realtors, they survey real estate agents. They found that last year, 49% of all real estate agents arm themselves when they go to do an open house. Half of them are armed. Now, they arm themselves with pepper spray, a gun, a knife, or a taser, in that order. But the interesting thing is, why are they doing open houses if they’re totally ineffective? Well, they’re doing open houses because it’s a lead generation tool for somebody.
They use your front room to market themselves because they know who comes to these homes. So, what I’m doing is I’m getting this book in front of everybody that couldn’t sell their home, or people that are thinking about selling their home. So, I literally have written the book on how to sell a house and what doesn’t work. So, I’ve been shipping this book out to everybody that is thinking about selling a house or they haven’t been able to sell the house, and it’s worked great.
Rob Kosberg:
So, that would be like expired listings.
Michael Bell:
Yes.
Rob Kosberg:
Would that be for sale by owners in your neighborhood that they’re not on the overall market, they’re just trying to do it themselves? Would that be who you’re getting it to as well?
Michael Bell:
There’s a chapter about for sale by owners. 90% of them give up and they give it to a realtor. I ship this book off to them, too.
Rob Kosberg:
So, one of the things that we talk about a lot when it comes to what the book does for the author is it gives them this amazing credibility and authority that in your case, you deserve. You’re in the top one tenth of 1% of all realtors nationwide. However, people don’t know that out of the gate. What the book does is it frames you, especially you being a Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller, it frames you as the credible expert. So, how are you using that with listing presentations, perhaps, or when you’re actually engaging? I guess a two-part question. Part one is when you’re sending it to these expired and FSBOs and whatnot, how is that changing the conversation, and then talk to me about when you go on a listing presentation.
Michael Bell:
I’ll tell you my experience I had about two weeks ago. I met these owners of a fourplex in Glendale. They said they saw something on my website about me writing a book. I said, “I’ve got the books in my car. Would you like a signed author copy?” They lit up. They thought it was the most amazing thing. So, I took out my Sharpie and I signed it. You didn’t tell me about this, but it’s pretty awesome when you-
Rob Kosberg:
It feels good, doesn’t it?
Michael Bell:
It’s amazing. I feel like a celebrity. They’re so excited to have an author copy. I know they’re never going to sell it. So, what I decided to do is I’m not going cheap and buying all the softcover. I’m buying hardcovers.
It’s just a few dollars more to have a hardcover book, and I keep them in my car, and I’ve got a Sharpie there, and I hand the books to these people and I say, “Hey, you don’t have to read the whole thing,” because I know most people aren’t going to read the whole thing, but I want them to read the introduction, and I want them to read the conclusion, which has a synopsis of all the mistakes and all the things that you should do.
Rob Kosberg:
So, a couple of tips that Mike just gave there for any author, really, important. If you’re asking for reviews on your book, or if you just want your book to use and frame a conversation, get it in front of a prospect, et cetera, think about what the need of that prospect or that person is, and then just suggest that they read that one or two chapters because that’s easy for anybody to do. When you hand them a book, they’re going to think of you… As Mike just said, it really does change the whole came, but sometimes it’s intimidating to have that entire book there and go, “Okay. Well, jeez. I don’t want to start something I’m not going to finish.” So, some people don’t start it. Take the pressure off of them and tell them, “Hey, just read the introduction. Just read Chapter 11. That really is going to be applicable to you.” I love that tip. That’s really helpful for people.
Michael Bell:
I fold it down. I fold that page down towards the back and I hand it to them, and I do personalize the book. What’s interesting is I was signing my books Michael Bell, and I was giving them to people I kind of know, and they said, “That’s kind of impersonal.” So, now I just sign them Mike.
I put them first name, and I tell them, “Thank you.” You can do something very simple. “Thank you for your support. Please enjoy this. Spread the word,” and then I just sign my name and hand it. I’ll tell you, nobody’s going to throw that book away because who has a signed copy from the author? Nobody throws that stuff away.
Rob Kosberg:
I have a bunch of signed author copies. They are on my shelves. They will always be on my shelves, and eventually, people are going to sell their home, and you want to have a book when the time comes that will point out the mistakes that you could potentially make.
Michael Bell:
I also put my business card in there because that’s a little marker for them, so I kind of jam that in there.
Rob Kosberg:
So, talk to me about the presentation then. Let’s say that you get it to an expired listing. They’re interested. You now are head and shoulders above all the other local people. Maybe they even read the chapter that is the reason that their home didn’t sell and expired in the first place, for example. What’s that listing presentation like? Let’s just be blunt. Is it helping you to contract more homes for sale?
Michael Bell:
So, real estate is a relationship business, so it’s hard to develop a relationship by mailing somebody a book. So, I’ve got to follow it up with a handwritten note, try to get their phone number. I haven’t done this yet, but I really should be driving over to the house and putting it on their front door, but I’m not doing that.
So, for every 20 books that I ship out, I get one response, and that’s on me. I really should be doing more. They’ve been very good responses, but a lot of people, when their home doesn’t sell, they decide not to put it on the market for a few more years. So, maybe they’ll call me in a few years. I don’t know. So, I can’t really say it’s one in 20. This stuff takes time.
Rob Kosberg:
You’re framed as the expert because of your book, but they still need to engage with you, and that means that a conversation… Yeah, a handwritten note is nice, but if it’s the kind of house that you want to list, getting over there and hand delivering that thing, or even just a note attached to it or something that gets you in front of those people, that’s going to be a game changer for you. That kind of follow-up will make a difference.
Michael Bell:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Rob Kosberg:
Go ahead. Other things that you’re doing with your book or that you’ve thought about doing with your book, because I know you’re ordering a bunch of copies. I know you’re doing some other interesting things, so other things that you’re thinking about doing and using the book.
Michael Bell:
Well, what’s interesting is I get a few phone calls a week from somebody nationwide that can’t sell their home. They’ve read the book, and they want me to find themselves a realtor. I had one guy call me a few months ago and he said, “By chance, are you moving to St. Louis?” and I said, “No,” and he goes, “Well, the reason why is I read your book. It’s a great book, and if by chance you were moving to St. Louis, I’d hire you on the spot.”
I was like, “Well, thank you.” It’s not that every realtor out there makes all these mistakes. A lot of them do, but I can find somebody a real estate agent that subscribes to these principles, and they’re not really that crazily difficult. It’s just that as real estate professionals, we have a fiduciary duty to our clients. You really are supposed to do what’s best for the client, and a lot of the practices in our real estate industry really don’t focus on the client. They’re really not client-centric. They’re really to help the real estate agent, and they’re to help the real estate agent get more business.
For example, the open houses, open houses are great for leads for realtors. Print ads, there’s a whole chapter about print ads. Print ads don’t sell houses. Look at the data in the book. The real estate sign, the for sale sign out in front does not help sell a house. It has less than 1%, and it causes a lot of problems. These are all things that everybody thinks you’re supposed to do when you sell a house, and the realtors all subscribe to this because it helps their business. I’ve cut all of that out of my business. If I have an opportunity to be in front of somebody to sell their home, I have a really good chance of getting that listing because they realize, “Jeez, Mike Bell’s going to do everything that works, and he’s not going to use me to further his business.”
Rob Kosberg:
I read through your book, loved it. There’s a chapter in there that we’re not even really getting to. I mean, what does a seller want more than anything else? You said it before. They want the most money possible for their home, and you have… I don’t know if it’s a single chapter, but you talk about negotiation, price negotiations, et cetera, and I love your philosophy on that. I love the way you handle that. I wonder if you could talk for a minute about some of the mistakes there when it comes to the actual negotiating part and getting the highest price for a home.
Michael Bell:
Well, let’s put it this way. Well, at the end of the day, a seller wants three things. They want the most amount of money in the least amount of time with the least amount of headaches. They’ve surveyed millions of sellers. They’ve all basically said the same thing. I mean, who wants this process to take long?
Rob Kosberg:
Nobody.
Michael Bell:
Who wants headaches and all that other stuff? So, this is a great guide to get you there. Now, in terms of negotiation, a lot of sellers decide to pick a realtor based upon their fee. Now, just think of it this way. If you hire a real estate agent and you can beat them up on their fee, if you can get them down, you’ve just out-negotiated a professional negotiator that’s supposed to negotiate the sales price of your house. I tell people all the time, “Why would you hire someone who can’t even negotiate their own paycheck?”
Quite frankly, I see this all the time, and I see this all the time. The way the agent negotiates the paycheck is usually the way they negotiate the sale of your home, and it’s absolutely true there are some horrible, horrible real estate agents, and I don’t want to say most of them are discount brokers, but a lot of them are, and you get what you pay for.
Rob Kosberg:
That is something that needs to be thought about by a seller because it can feel self-serving, but if you just take a step back, use a little common sense, really think about it, and go, “Okay, I get it. This guy’s tough. This guy’s a tough negotiator. That’s who I want working for me, is a tough negotiator. I don’t want somebody that just negotiated their paycheck lower so quickly because they’re…” I get it. I get it. There’s a common sense element that needs to be employed when you think about that. So, I love that. I love that way of thinking about it.
Michael Bell:
Well, there’s a whole bunch of other chapters of great stuff in there.
Rob Kosberg:
Let’s give them some links in a second where they can get a copy of the book, where they can learn a little bit more about you.
I had the pleasure and honor of working with you and our team on this book, and we’re proud of it. I know you’re really proud of it. Maybe you could take a minute. What would you tell somebody that was thinking about working with Best Seller Publishing, or any things to think about in regards to them creating their own book?
Michael Bell:
Well, first, I would never think about doing this all by myself. There’s so many little things that are involved, even creating the format, the font, the look. You guys had everything right there. It was great. I will admit that when I first met you I thought about doing this by myself and realized quickly that there’s no way I’m going to be able… It’s tough enough just to write the book. It’s tough enough to… I tell people I’m a first-time author, last-time author, am a full-time realtor. Rob, it has nothing to do with you, but I never want to write a book again. It was hard.
But you made it easy. You made it as easy as possible, and I appreciate that because all the tools were there. Everybody was there. You’ve got proofreaders. You’ve got people helping me with editing and all that other stuff. I will admit it took me a long time because I just kept putting it to the side, and that’s all on me. But there’s no way I would’ve finished this book if it wasn’t for you guys, and to get it loaded on the Amazon and all the ancillary people that you’ve got to help me with the different funnels, and all the training that you have ever week, there’s nothing out there like it, so I appreciate it. You’ve got a great thing going. I should’ve done it five years ago when I first met you.
Rob Kosberg:
That is one of the mistakes, one of the big mistakes. When should you have written your book, 10 years ago? The second-best time is today, right?
First-time author, last-time author, but you did it right. You became not just an author, but a Wall Street Journal bestseller.
Michael Bell:
It’s amazing.
Rob Kosberg:
That’s a big deal. I mean, that is not a small thing. I wrote my first book in 2009. I became a Wall Street Journal bestseller with my most recent book just last year, so you’re talking about a span of 13 or 14 years of me writing and being a part of many books. You did it right out of the gate, so Mike, congratulations. Let’s give them some links where they can learn a little bit more about you and maybe get a copy of the book, et cetera.
Michael Bell:
They can just go to my website, michaelbbell.com. You can answer a few questions. All I need is your email address so I can email you a free copy of the book. You can go onto Amazon and buy the book. I’m launching the audiobook next week, but you can get a softcover and a hardcover, and I ask if you do buy my book, please give me a review. It’s tough to get people to give reviews.
You can’t do the review right away because Amazon wants to make sure you read it, so you got to go back into it three days later or something like that and write the review, but please give me an honest review.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah, and you don’t need to read the whole book. Read a couple chapters and offer a review. I mean, offer an honest review based on what you’ve read.
Michael Bell:
If you’re thinking about selling your house anywhere in the nation, and you have some questions, just call me up. I’m not going to try to sell you on anything. I’ll help you out. I can spare 10 minutes. Please get a free copy of the book, too. It’ll help you out, I guarantee it.
Rob Kosberg:
I guarantee it as well. Mike, great to be with you, my friend. Thanks for taking the time out, and-
Michael Bell:
Thank you.
