Writing for Your Legacy with Stan Miller

Rob Kosberg:

Hey welcome everybody. Rob Kosberg here with another episode of the Publish, Promote, Profit Podcast. I have a friend and someone I think that you’re going to learn a great deal from, Mr. Stan Miller. Let me tell you a little bit about Stan and then we’re going to dive in, talk about Stan’s book and how he’s used it. His purpose and reason for writing it. His bio is quite long, so I’m going to share some of the highlights of it. Stan is a managing partner at the Stan Miller Law Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas. Stan is super passionate about the power of estate planning and the positive difference that it makes in the life of Arkansas families and really families all over the United States.

Stan was an early pioneer in living trust planning in Arkansas, at a time when most law firms were in firm of probating estates, which is obviously more costly and time consuming. He’s established over 5,000 living trusts that have protected more than four and a half billion dollars in advertising. Stan also is a leader in estate planning and helped to found something called Wealth Counsel LLC. and also, Elder Counsel LLC. You can find both of those at wealthcouncil.com and eldercouncil.com, I believe. Stan will correct me if I’m wrong about that, but that’s a little of how we met.

Stan is the best-selling author of Your American Legacy: Powerful Strategies that Instill Lasting for Generations. We’re going to talk a little bit about Stan’s book and some of Stan’s work. So, Stan, thanks for being on the podcast and I’ve loved already catching up with you and I’m looking forward to doing more of that.

Stan Miller:

Rob, I’m flattered you asked me, it is good to catch up.

Rob Kosberg:

You know Stan, maybe we can begin with you’ve been doing this for a long time, protecting four and a half billion dollars in assets and it’s probably a lot more than that, and you’ve also really been a thought leader in this field, establishing Wealth Counsel many years ago, Elder Counsel. Give me some background into what was really the impotence to develop Wealth Counsel, Elder Counsel to go as deep as you have gone because you can live a great life and you have, and do with your wife and family there in Little Rock, Arkansas, but you’ve decided to really go deep and branch out. What was the driving motivation of all that?

Stan Miller:

Well I’ll see if I can make this brief, but I’ll tell you, when I got into the estate planning space back in the mid 80s, there were no tools. There were no books. There was no software. There was no community and it was really lonely. It took me a really long time to reach, what I would consider a level of real confidence and so when I was in a position to influence the process, I became very proactive in helping build this business that we created at Wealth Counsel and then later Elder Counsel, that provides the software to create documents, the education to train people how to do that. And probably most importantly, the community to plug into so that you build a set of relationships of people that you can call when you don’t know what to do. We’ve done a really good job of that, but I didn’t have any of that.

Periodically today, I feel a twinge of jealousy of all the kids coming in these days, because I got a couple young lawyers that are in training at my firm right now and they’re literally swimming in resources. They’re overwhelmed by all of the available content that we’re having to schedule it out, so that they can also get some work done. But what I discovered… and one of the things I will tell you about estate planning, it’s almost not like practicing law. You think of law as being the thing pursuing people, all that. Estate planning is not like that, estate planning is almost an art form in which the more effective you are at opening up and getting people to open up their hearts and their souls and letting it out there for you, the better you are, the more effective you are in the work that you do.

Because ultimately, the work we do for clients, for the most part, does not actually benefit them. If you think about it, right? There are some things we do in asset protection and income tax, by and large the work that estate planning law firms do is work for clients who care about other people. They’re paying us money to do things that will really only benefit people after they’re dead and gone, right?

Rob Kosberg:

Wow.

Stan Miller:

So, people don’t come to us who are miserly and selfish. They’re people that have an impulse to have a positive impact on families. So, we have the advantage of having people like that find their way to us. What I discovered is that many times in conversations, people would really open up their hearts in ways that were intimidating to me. There was a quality of intimacy about it that was at times a bit terrifying because we’re so open, so candid about what mattered to them about their desire, not just to save taxes and simplify things, but also to make sure that their children had the values that mattered. These are people that by and large, have worked for what they have and they recognize that in order to live a successful life, there are a certain set of values that you have to live out in order for your life to really work, you know?

You’ve known people, I’m sure, who lacked integrity. And what you know about them is their life really did not work. They may have experienced momentary blips of financial success, but ultimately it all crashed. So by and large, our clients know this at some intuitive level and they want to make certain that the values that matter get passed on in ways so that their children, and maybe even more so, grandchildren possess those values, live out those values so that they can live a successful life. I would have people on many occasions open up to me about that and we’d have to reach over and get the Kleenex.

Rob Kosberg:

Right.

Stan Miller:

We’d cry together, but I always had this feeling that I was uncomfortable in that space because I did not know what to do. I had no solutions; I had no thing I could bring to the conversation that would make an impact. That’s really what prompted the book. It was a book that I wrote for myself because I was saying to myself, “I really don’t want to feel that sense of inadequacy in that conversation with clients.” So, my purpose in the book was really to provide a structure, a format for myself to think through what the tools and solutions are, so that when those conversations happen, I would be able to lean into that and have real substantive things I could offer.

I’m probably like every other estate planning lawyer out there; we don’t want to open the door to a conversation if we don’t know how to walk through it. You don’t want to be embarrassed in front of your clients. You don’t bring up things if you don’t know what to do about it if they bring it up. So, this book was really written for me and hopefully for a lot of other guys and women out there who had this conversation with clients. I wanted to be able to provide a framework and a roadmap for how to have the conversation, and how to be able to offer a set of solutions that would be appropriate and be a fit for that client. And there’s no one thing, right? It’s a lot of things.

So, what I’ve created as a framework of basically 10 different strategies about how to approach this. My experience is that one of those strategies will work for just about everybody. Not everybody likes everything, right? But our job is to sort through and find the right solutions. So, I really wrote the book so that I could have a greater level of confidence in engaging in that conversation with clients.

Rob Kosberg:

Right. I love that. And there’s probably maybe a little bit of a need to define some of what we’re talking about because I think most people might think that you being established Wealth Counsel, Elder Counsel, being involved in living trust, being an attorney, having a law firm that it’s about the law, it’s about the passing on of financial wealth. But truth be told, Your American Legacy: Powerful Strategies that Instill Lasting Values for Generations, that’s the whole point. The point is that there’s a lot more that’s being passed on, or maybe that is at risk of not being passed on besides financial wealth. In some ways, financial wealth is the easiest thing to pass on, right?

Stan Miller:

Yeah.

Rob Kosberg:

So, talk to me about that a little bit because you’ve really written something here that is more about passing on values and stories and legacy from one generation to the next, right?

Stan Miller:

Yeah. So, there’s some data out there that says in the next 25 years or so, there’s going to be about 70 or 80 trillion dollars-

Rob Kosberg:

Right.

Stan Miller:

Pass hands from the generation that earned it, into the hands of a generation that did not earn it. I’m talking about 70 or 80 trillion. Congress just passed legislation to put 1.9 trillion out and everybody’s yelling about how much money that is. We’re talking about 70 or 80 trillion dollars passing hands. That has never happened in the history of humankind. We’ve never had that kind of transfer of wealth occur of wealth passing from the hands of people that earned it, into the hands of people that didn’t on that scale. So, I thought a lot about what are the implications of that in societal terms? What will that do to culture? What happens if that wealth passes into the hands of a generation that’s unprepared to receive it? Iowa State did a survey back in 2012 where they found that it takes on average, about 19 months for an heir to get rid of their inheritance through foolishness.

So, what I have come to believe with confidence is that our role as planners, as estate planners and also our role as financial advisers is bigger than just doing legal documents for people and it’s bigger than just helping grow their assets. It’s really about helping clients think about the implications of the wealth they’ve created, think about the potential harm it can do, but also get excited about the potential, the amazing positive things it can do if that wealth is thoughtfully transferred in the right way, with the right amount of training and coaching and structure and protection. I feel like we’re really on the brink of this incredible opportunity and I think it is an opportunity if we do this right. But I think if we get this wrong, the consequences just culturally.

If you have the wealth of a nation is dissipated and foolish, unwise spending, that has consequences. But the other side of it is if we get this right, if wealth is protected and nurtured and handed off to people that are ready for it, and have the right values to receive it, it’s a pretty exciting future we’ve got out there.

Rob Kosberg:

Right, I love it. You know, you and I have known each other a little while and obviously we were fortunate enough to be involved and help with Your American Legacy, but I have never had this conversation with you. That is so inspiring and terrifying, to me personally. I was raised in a really loving family, I was instilled with values, but I never expected an inheritance. I just knew I wasn’t going to have an inheritance. My kids, I think, I like to believe were raised in a loving family and hope were instilled with values. Been married for 30 plus years and yet, they are going to get… who knows, right? I could blow it between now and then, but I certainly have acquired wealth in my life and holy cow, are they prepared for that? Right?

Wow, that is a frightening and interesting conversation that I think needs to be had. That puts the role of wealth counselor, financial advisor in a much, much different light than just having a couple of documents dotted and signed.

Stan Miller:

Yeah. It’s way more than avoiding probate, isn’t it?

Rob Kosberg:

It is way more than avoiding probate. We have 10,000 baby boomers retiring every year and I’ve heard about this transfer-

Stan Miller:

Every day Rob.

Rob Kosberg:

Sorry, every day. 10,000 a day, my apologies and I’ve heard about this 70 to 80 trillion-dollar wealth transfer. I have never thought about it in the terms of going from the generation that earned it to the generation that didn’t earn it. That’s like, “Oh wow.” That’s terrifying. So, thank you for writing the book. I love the book. It has motivated and inspired me. I am writing my own legacy book about how to write a legacy book and part of my impotence to finally pull the trigger to do that, which should be done in the next few months was just the motivation that you gave me from completing yours. I don’t know if you know that, but-

Stan Miller:

I did not know that.

Rob Kosberg:

Mine should be done soon, yeah.

Stan Miller:

You’re making my day there. I’m really glad to hear you’re doing that. And I’ve got to tell you too, you didn’t ask me to say this, I really do have to say that you and your team too, I give your credit a lot of team. You have some really talented people working for you and the thing that I was not prepared for whenever we had initially established our relationship is, I didn’t really get how much you guys actually cared about this.

And I see that. I see that reflected. I hadn’t met, I don’t have a relationship with all the people on your team, but the people on your team that I know and that I spent time with really do have a heart for this. They really have a passion for it and it’s really quite something to see. You guys were a pleasure to work with. You’ve gone above and beyond as far as all the commitments that you made. I think you guys have far exceeded all of that. I’m really thrilled to just be able to maintain this relationship with you guys.

Rob Kosberg:

Me too. I was excited about this podcast interview, just because I got to catch up with you, you know. Every morning, I have a morning routine and part of my morning routine is just in prayer and expressing gratitude for the things in my life. There’s almost never enough time to do that because I have so much to be grateful for. It’s funny, one of the things that I’m both grateful for, but it’s a little bit of a curse is I was thinking about our conversation today. I was thinking about my clients and I just thought one on the blessings and curses of our company being successful is that I have so many really great clients, and I haven’t been able to keep up with them in a really personal and meaningful way.

My heart sank a little bit about that this morning, I was both grateful for how well things have gone and at the same time, it’s a double-edged sword in one sense. And you must feel that. You’ve probably cried with so many people over the years, right? And how can you when you have 5,000 people that you’ve helped, right?

Stan Miller:

It’s a challenge, yep.

Rob Kosberg:

Amazing. Well your book will certainly make a difference in even many, many more lives. Maybe we can just shift for one minute. We’ve spent a good bit of time talking about the motivation behind writing the book and eye opening to me, some of the things that you share. Talk to me about how you’re using the book to get your message out, to attract clients to help others that are wealth advisers and in your same position. How are you using the book to make a difference in your law firm and in other law firms?

Stan Miller:

I’ll tell you honestly. I’ve been rather shameless about that. I found when you go to all the work to write a book, and there is some work that goes into that, I don’t want to diminish the amount of effort it takes to take ideas and put it into a book form. But once you’ve done that, you’re not uncomfortable. I’ve not been uncomfortable handing my book to people and suggesting they read a particular chapter. So, we’ve been fairly systematic about it. We started with existing clients and we have an ongoing campaign right where we’re sending the book on a stage basis to a certain number of clients every week, following up with them. Inviting them to come in for reviews. It’s unusual, for all the books that have been written out there Rob, it turns out that most people don’t know anybody that wrote a book.

So, whenever they see that you wrote a book, it’s kind of a big deal and it’s a way of getting attention in ways that differentiate you from all those people. So, we’re saying to clients following up with them, were using as an outreach tool to financial advisers. We’re actually sending the book. We have a database of financial advisers because financial advisers are a big source of referrals for us. So, we’re systematically sending the book to a certain number of financial advisers every week and then we follow up with them just in a phone call to see if they’re interested in starting a conversation and having a relationship with us. So those are two ways and-

Rob Kosberg:

Before you go into anything else, because you’ve just dropped some gold there. I want to dig a little bit deeper if I could. First of all, I’m thrilled you’re using the book in such a way because that’s exactly what you should be doing with the book, right? You want to get it into the right hands. So, talk to me, every single week, you are mailing to your existing database of clients and suggesting for a review, et cetera. Is there any data, or can you share with me anything about what that has led to as far as the number of people that you’re helping in a secondary way and revenues may be an uncomfortable thing to talk about. But what has it led to for your law firm?

Stan Miller:

Yeah, actually I should have better data than I can offer you. We’ve just recently started. We just moved the firm into a new law firm and so that’s the process we’ve just begun. So, I don’t have good data on that yet, but I’m getting really terrific feedback on it. We’re really quite stunned when they get your book. It’s like they never expected that and so I will have data in probably three months, I’ll be able to tell you out of every 10 people we send it to, how many come back in for additional meetings.

Rob Kosberg:

Well we’ll have to have a follow up to this then, because-

Stan Miller:

You can do that, right? We’re also using the book with new client prospects. So, prior to an initial client meeting, we include the book in the pre-appointment package because it’s a… these are people that have not met me before. They’ve only heard about me from somebody else. They’ve never laid eyes on me and they have a book. It is a real differentiator. So, I think that it’s improving, I would say our close ratio because we sit down with 100 clients, every single one chooses to engage us and what we found is that by using the book, our close ratio’s much higher.

So, our initial client meetings are more productive because we’re getting hired in those cases. The great percentage we did before and then we’re getting a significant number of financial adviser relationships that we have, and I believe it is specifically because of the book. It was the book that got the door open. It was the book. The ideas in the book, the framework the book provides that really has gotten the attention of these advisers because there’s so many people, the other guys that do what we do, knocking on their door and saying, “Please send me business.” We have a different message. We’re saying, “We actually have a framework for how to think about this. We have a process. Our message is one that your clients want to hear about, and it will help you connect with your clients in a way that would be good for you.” It’s our tool for developing a partnership with that adviser.

Rob Kosberg:

Love it. I love that you’re mailing every week to financial advisers. You can print your book for three to five dollars and put it in the mail. It always amazes me; this is a strategy we suggest to our clients. If you’re someone that wants speaking engagements then you should mail a copy of your book to whoever sets up those speaking engagements within an association, within a private organization, a CEO, et cetera. You want to put your best foot forward and what is better than your book as to your best foot forward? I love what you’re doing with clients too Stan, because your book is filled with your heart, I think. And obviously, I think that’s a sign of a great book is when your voice gets attached to your book through your stories and through your real intention.

So, there’s always the antiseptic part of here’s the things you should do to protect your finances to make sure that you stay out of probate, et cetera. And anybody in one sense can give that direction, anybody that knows of course, but people want more than that, right? They want a connection with you-

Stan Miller:

And one thing I’ve discovered by the way, is to hand people a book, believe it or not, for a lot of people, handing them a book and suggesting they read it is a big gulp. So, I don’t do that anymore. What I do, we’ve had these paper clips, these bookmarkers printed that have our logo on them. So, when I give a book away to somebody, usually what I will do is… it’s probably somebody I’ve had a conversation with and so I have a little bit of a sense of who they are, where they’re coming from. What I’ll do is I’ll go in and find one chapter of the book and as you know, you’ve read my book and you know there’s no chapter that’s more than six or seven pages long and some are three or four pages and so, asking somebody to read one chapter is not a tall order. People can do that. So, what I’ve done is I’ve said, “You may not want to read the whole book, but this one chapter I think is really relevant for you.” So, you mark that for them.

And I think that once they read the chapter and it resonates, I’ve found that quite often they’ll read other chapters. But I don’t ask for a commitment to read a whole book because that’s a big ask for many people.

Rob Kosberg:

It is, it is, and you know what? They don’t need to read the whole book. What they need is exactly what you’re giving them, which is guidance on what is important to them. And they’re looking for affirmation. They want to affirm the decision that they’re about to make. To work with you on preserving their legacy. The fact that you can give them a book that’s a best seller, that thousands of others have read that can help them to just affirm their trust in you, it’s gold. I love it.

Stan Miller:

Yeah. It does feel good. It certainly made me feel better of myself too. To finally take all these ideas that have been sloshing around in your head in sort of a way, undistilled, unrefined and refine them and bring them into some sort of order is really good for you. It was good for me for sure.

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. Totally agree. Stan, where can people get more information? Obviously, they can buy your book on Amazon. Your American Legacy by Stan Miller. But if they want some information on some of the other things you’ve done Wealth Counsel, Elder Counsel, et cetera. Where’s the best place to send them? And obviously we want to have a follow up down the road to see the kind of results that you’ve gotten with your book, but let’s give them where they can go now.

Stan Miller:

Yeah, a couple things there. One is the book’s also available on Audible. I read the text. My wife and I read the book together. She read all the quotes, so that was really a partnership activity. She went to the studio and did it all in 30 minutes. I had to do eight different sessions over a two-month period, but she had-

Rob Kosberg:

Fun.

Stan Miller:

…part of the job, but there are a lot of people that refer to consume books by audio because you can do it when you’re working out. You can do it when you’re riding your bicycle, when you’re commuting, whatever and so that’s a good way. My law firm website is stanmillerlaw.com. I also, and this was not my idea, but some of the guys I work with who have been helping me promote the book thought I needed to have a website of my own. It was a bit uncomfortable to do that because I didn’t feel quite right to do it, but they told me I had to. So, I did and so the link to that is standmiller.com. Stanmiller.com is taken by some yacht broker down in Florida. On standmiller.com there’s a little bit about my personal history. I’ve got a couple videos I’ve shot where I talk about the vision of what we’re trying to accomplish here.

Rob Kosberg:

Love it. Standmiller.com.

Stan Miller:

Yeah and let me mention also Wealth Counsel and that’s Wealth C-O-U-N-S-E-L like the lawyer, weatlhcounsel.com. That’s a company that I’m really proud of. I co-founded it with a number of other people, but that company has really and continues to make an ever-increasing impact on the lives of American families because we provide the tools and resources to help advisers make that connection and provide really well-informed solutions. So we’ve grown it from not technically my garage, because at the time I didn’t have a garage, but my wife was the only employee and we didn’t pay her, but we now have about 85 employees and about 10,000 lawyers that use our products and we’re in every state and every territory, and you can find one of those lawyers at estateplanning.com. That’s the site that we own, estateplanning.com. You can just type in your ZIP code and you can find one of our members and they come up in proximity to you. So yeah, I’m really proud of that. Other than being the dad of a naval aviator, that’s my greatest accomplishment.

Rob Kosberg:

Love it. Love it Stan. Thanks for sharing your heart. Thanks for giving your time. Thanks for the extra time that you and I got to spend, even off this podcast and I think people are… we’ll put all those websites in the show notes and no matter where you’re at, whether you’re someone that needs maybe to have a financial adviser, or an attorney, look at your stuff. You know where to go. Or if you’re an attorney or financial adviser, there’s some great tools that Stan has had. So, Stan my friend, thank you and we’ll be in touch for the next time as well.

Stan Miller:

Perfect, always a pleasure Rob, thanks.