Using a Book to Positively Impact Your Clients with Raul Hernandez Ochoa

Rob Kosberg:

Hey, and welcome. Rob Kosberg here. I’ve got a great guest for you today. Someone, I think you’re going to learn a lot from, and I’m really looking forward to talking to, and that’s Raul Hernandez Ochoa. He’s a business strategist, coach, consultant. And, of course, the best-selling author of his book, Productive Profits: The Founder’s Guide to Scaling Your Impact. He’s trained hundreds of entrepreneurs through live seminars, online programs, private masterminds. He’s played a key part in helping businesses scale and oversee hundreds of online advertising campaigns. You know I love that. His work has helped positively impact his clients’ lives and the teams that he’s helped to flourish. He’s also a family man, lives in beautiful San Diego. When he’s not working and drinking his homemade cold brew, he’s serving his community, serving his church, or training for some kind of crazy obstacle course, and maybe just surfing. So great to be with you today, my friend. Welcome.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Rob, thanks for having me on.

Rob Kosberg:

Awesome. There are two main things that I’d like to focus on with you here. I want to talk about your magic and how you help entrepreneurs and businesses grow. Maybe we codify some of that stuff, how you ended up putting that in your book. And, of course, we’ll direct people to your book. And then I’d like to change gears just a little bit and talk about what has your book done for you? We know your book is doing great things for other people. So maybe just give us an overview. Who is your ideal client? Who are the teams and the entrepreneurs? What do they look like? And how do you directly impact and help them?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I like the way you started when you talked about the magic. This is actually something I haven’t shared much about because I haven’t gotten that specific question. The magic really comes in the intersection between creative thought and analytical thought. I thought that it was just common sense for some of the stuff that I do. Once I started to understand different learning modalities and education and execution, there is either that creative entrepreneur, who’s always creative, who has great ideas. They fuel the fire, they build the pipeline, they keep growing. And there’s also the analytical entrepreneur who is very tech-savvy, focused on the granular.

I cross those bridges into having both the creativity and the analytical components. And to answer your question, the clients that I have the most impact on are creative-driven entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs who need that stability and who need that certainty in their business. And are looking for avenues to create that certainty. That’s what productive profits does. So, take both that creative aspect and that ambition and drive, marry it with the analytical, and have a very practical, common-sense approach based on principles that just work.

Rob Kosberg:

Love it, love it. Well, I know a lot about entrepreneurs, having been one myself and continue to be one. We can be difficult to work with. We have 1,000 ideas, and our minds are moving 100 miles an hour, Mach2 with our hair on fire, right? A little like herding cats, I would imagine!

I love the explanation of the magic because that is a big deal, right? I mean, no one wants to create something, and then never see their creation flourish because they don’t add the analytical stuff. Give us an example, maybe a great success story of a client that you helped?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I’ll give you the most recent example—an industry leader, at the very top, who is well known in what they’re doing. Has a podcast, has the whole thing going, and I’m pretty much helping him create the whole infrastructure within his team. So he’s labor-focused services. So services-based business, which depends on your people and your labor, but pretty much re-organizing that infrastructure and the team’s design to have him be removed as being the one bottleneck in most projects on that team and redesign the business. This is, again, the creative aspect talking about design. When you redesign it in an approach that, one, hits profit, two, hits your goals, three, meets your lifestyle, and, four, allows your team to flourish. That’s not just a fancy word. It’s intentional. We’re creating new careers for team members. One team member is on track to have three raises within one year because of that new career path that we’ve created. And that’s a lot of work. Fun work! But it doesn’t have to take a whole year. This took around, I think, we’re 90 days in right now.

Rob Kosberg:

Love it. That’s awesome. I would imagine the third thing you mentioned was lifestyle goals or what the entrepreneur wants his life to look like? I see very successful entrepreneurs and are working 40, 50, 60, 70 hours a week. And I throw 40 in there because even that I am not interested in doing, personally, because, in one sense, entrepreneurs are always working. On the weekends, my mind is going.

I got my notebook out. I’m reading. I’m thinking. I’m considering the next offer. Is that a big issue that you see with the entrepreneurs that you work with? That they have all this business energy and are working way too long, way too hard, sacrificing family, and other things. Because of simply not having the analytical side put together?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Well, that’s my secret agenda, if we can call it that.

Rob Kosberg:

Nice.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

What is actually going on here? What are we actually doing? Why create certainty in your business? Well, what does success actually mean? It’s not the bank account. That’s nice. It’s not the revenue. That’s awesome.

It’s a total success for you, your community, family, what you’re doing, your holistic life, and looking at success from that lens. That’s actually why I started the book with that specific focus. What are you called to? I’ve had buddies and friends, venture-backed companies growing super rapidly, working 70 hours a week. That’s what he wanted to do.

I have other friends creating lifestyle businesses, passive income, and all that kind of stuff. It’s all what are we designing? Because before we can get to the heavy lifting infrastructure, creating the right, people call them processes and systems. It’s all around creating the right workflows. That’s all it is.

Before we start working on those, what are we actually designing for? What’s the end outcome? What does that look like? And we go through a lot of introspection and give different resources and tools and ideas to individuals for them to identify, ” Is this actually what I want for my business? Is this the impact that I want to have?” The business essentially is serving people. It’s serving others, your community, it’s serving your teams if you have a team, it’s serving the customer. So what’s the impact look for them? What does the impact look for your business? And how does that fit into the inner workings of your life? Because we’re not going to live forever. We’ve got to make the most out of what we’ve got.

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. It would suck if your business was great at serving everybody else but you, right? Because you’re so busy serving everybody else, the business has never been built to actually serve you, which, of course, is not easy to do. Still, it is the point of a business. At least from my perspective, it is the point of the business. That’s great. That’s a great example. Very, very helpful. Give me, how do I put it? There’s the magic, right? The Wizard of Oz. Raul is the Wizard of Oz, but then you go behind the curtain and there’s the seven things that the Wizard of Oz does to actually make Oz look the way it does, right? I mean, is it codified? Is it steps? What is it that you do when you work with an entrepreneur?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

So it’s a cycle. It’s all a driven cycle. Just like education, like you mentioned earlier, what you’re reading on the weekends. Your official schooling ended a while ago. Our official schooling ended years ago. But our actual education never ends.

Rob Kosberg:

Right.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Same thing with productive profits. It’s a cycle of clarity, creating that clarity in regards to where are we in business? Where are we going? Getting the pulse, making sure the team is good. What’s the new mission? What’s the new milestone? Creating the evergreen workflows around that, that’s phase two. Creating that structure, building out for that, those new workflows, the teams, whatever. And the last piece is the synchrony. Synchronizing all of the things that you’re building through leadership and effective leadership. I call it heroic leadership. And that’s the hardest thing, every time you’re building a business, every one of my clients, 100% guaranteed, is the question of how do we work with people?

That’s the key thing. And that’s where you’ve got to keep the wheels turning and keep growing and evolving. Because the way I see it is that your business will hit an inflection point, and that inflection point will determine your next level of success. If you’ve built correctly, you’re going to continue to grow steadily. And, obviously, there’s always growing pains. But it’s not going to be your dismal pitfall. Still, when you get to the next level, that’s a new plateau. Still, in this different level, you’re able to see the horizons at a different view, different opportunities come up. From there, you’re doing the same process, design, clarity, building out, synchronizing, and getting to the next level. That track, that trend over 10, 20, 30 years, depending on if it’s a legacy business that you’re handing down or if you’re going to sell it, it’s going to leave an impact. That impact just keeps increasing as you continue the cycle.

Rob Kosberg:

Love that. What do you find with the entrepreneurs that you speak to? I want to ask you a couple of questions, but this one comes to mind now. What do you find with them? Do you find that they all think in terms of this almost infinite scale? That’s not the right word, but they want to get to 10 million, 50 million, $100 million a year.

Is that something that you find with entrepreneurs? Give me some insight into your communications with them.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I’ll give you the practical answer. And I want to talk a little more about the philosophy of that because you uncovered something really important. The practical answer is that entrepreneurs are driven by growth, personal growth, business growth. Business growth is correlated to monetary growth, but it doesn’t just mean I want to hit 10 million. That’s it. That is something that you can definitely attach to, though, with the creative entrepreneurs, like, hey, I want to get to that next level. Cool, let’s cross that one million mark, cool. From here three, from there five, let’s hit 10. Others want to hit 100 million. You’ll never satiate that because it’s something that has infinite possibility.

Rob Kosberg:

Right, a number.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Yeah, it’s a number, but the key thing is, what are the values of that entrepreneur? Going back to the design, the clarity portion when you understand those values, and you start to define, this is why I need to reach, for example, $3.7 million. Why? I need to hire these types of staff members. This is the type of pay I want to give them. This is the lifestyle. I need to be able to increase the influence, or the impact in my media through this, and it’s going to cost this much. When you start dissecting it down to that level, you have more clarity in regards to your purpose. And that’s more of the philosophical side, like, what are the actual essence of the values you’re after? And why? Not just some arbitrary number that you threw your dart at.

Rob Kosberg:

Raul, I love that for a couple reasons. One is because I always think the numbers are really arbitrary. Most entrepreneurs don’t even know what they’re asking for when they talk about wanting a 5 or a $10 million business, in my opinion. Because it’s very painful to go from three million to 10 million. I know, I’ve been in that in a couple of different companies, and often you’re not making more money. There are plateaus, but I love what you say because when you really add looking closely at it and adding kind of the internal motivation thing, okay, why are we actually doing this? And what does it look like for you? What does your lifestyle look like? What does your income look like? You don’t get to keep the whole $3 million, or even million dollars. And, of course, as you grow bigger, your margins tend to shrink, which is interesting, so I really like that.

Let me just shift the gears, not totally, but a little bit. I ask entrepreneurs all the time why did you write your book? And I always get the same answer. So I’m going to give that answer to you, but then I’m going to ask you to answer it without using that answer. So the answer is always, “well, I wrote my book because I really want to help people. I really want to make a difference. I really want to teach entrepreneurs this thing.” I know that’s true. I know you want to do that. Now, you’re not allowed to answer that. Why else did you write your book? What else? What were the other maybe hidden purposes for you that you wrote it? Because it’s tough, right?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Yeah. I mean, I didn’t know what I was getting into. I was actually nudged by a mentor at the time because I helped the company grow almost triple revenue in a year, grow from 7 to 23. And these principles were always something that I was either writing on the side, or having notes around on how we’re doing these things. Teaching workshops, or from the workshops that I helped teach as extractions. Everything in the book is based either on results or experience, which produce results. So I didn’t put any theory in there.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

It was more of a nudge. Like, “hey, you should do this.” And, obviously, for the reasons of scaling my brand. If you pick up the book, it’s legit, like working with me, except it’s in a format, but it’s more of a nudge getting out there. I didn’t know it was going to be a labor of love. I need to be honest with you. When the third revision came through, I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I hate this book.”

Rob Kosberg:

“No, I don’t want to look at it again.” I get it. I get it.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Yeah, but you’ve got to do it! It’s a labor of love. And the process was pretty fun using voice, audio recognition to write it.

That was more of a nudge like, “Hey, there’s opportunity here.”

Rob Kosberg:

I hear two things. One, it sounds like the book helped you to codify what you’re doing, right? It forced you almost to create a course in a paperback version, right? And tell me if I’m wrong, but that’s kind of what I heard it. It helped you to create, codify what you’re already doing with these businesses. Is that accurate?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

It’s part of that. And even building on top of that code. Because I always improve what already exists, and you’re exactly right, Rob. When you pick up the book, it’s not this 300-page business book, which is out there, it’s literally 100 pages, and it’s literally open white space most of it to have notes and work through it because everything is actionable.

Rob Kosberg:

Good, good, love that. So I heard that, and then I also heard what I hoped to hear, and that was you were nudged to do it. Still, you also saw the benefit of doing this for your own brand, your own authority, and showing people by actually helping them that you can help them. I get oftentimes asked a question, Rob, how much content, how much real good stuff do I give? And I’m like, all of it. I mean, we’re not talking about writing 1,000 pages, but I mean, don’t hold back, like give them six of the Colonel’s secret ingredients, but not the seventh. Give all the secret ingredients, if you will, and you’ll help people.

You’ll help thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands. And then that will draw even the best of those people that raise their hand and say, “If this is what you’ve given me in a book form, I want you to do this for me. I want you to actually come to my company or meet with me, or whatever.” And so it sounds like that’s what you’ve done, and I super commend you for it. I think that’s very, very cool.

I look forward to seeing that book help tons of people.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I appreciate that. I think you also touched on something that’s like we’re trying to battle that myth, that if you give too much, then what’s left for me?

Rob Kosberg:

Right.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I think that’s an inverse because I’ve been in conversations where clients just want more. You’ve done something for them, and they want the next level. And what does that next level look like? Because that’s the other thing that we miss out on when we’re identifying the entrepreneur. The creative entrepreneur, any entrepreneur, wants growth. So if you helped them and got a result in a book, and then you help them with, let’s say, a program or a sprint, then the next level they’re always asking what’s next? And all of the successful entrepreneurs that I’ve either got to see behind their business work with, or work with hand in hand, always ask “what’s next?”

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. I totally agree. I know this is true for me, and I believe it’s true for many people. I’ve read books from authors that I thought, “You know what? There’s nothing new here.” And that meant, you know what? I’m not going to work with them. I don’t need to write them a bigger check. They didn’t give me anything special in this book. If you have something special, you holding it back is only going to hurt you. I have to say this over and over to authors because they think the other way. They think, “Well if I give them everything, they’re not going to need me.” No, no, no. That’s when they see their need for you even more because they see, okay, this guy, this girl has got something special. When I read that book, and I go, “Wow, that is smart.” I go, “I wonder if I can write them a big check, and they come and do that thing for me.” So anyway, I love that you did that.

Let me go ahead and shift gears. Your book is doing all this for other people. I get why you wrote it. Give me some idea of what your book has done for you? How has it helped you to grow your authority, grow your business? Any stories or examples? I would love to hear that kind of special stuff you’ve done, maybe how you got your book in the hands of your clients?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I mean, obviously, the authority position is the key piece to it. Even if it’s just dealing with clients regarding making proposals or working with them to the next level, having that author signature is definitely important. I don’t take it lightly because I’ll continue to buff up on that writing, but I think the cool thing around, like, this is just in passing, right? When someone remembers, or tells you, “by the way, you wrote the book, you’re an author!” You’re like, oh yeah, I am an author. Oh yeah, I did this thing, which wasn’t easy. It took months of work, but just having that credibility enables you to take it seriously, even further, like, hey, I have this IP. How can I make this better? How can I continually improve upon this?

Because you’ve asked me early on, and I thought about your question: “what does the book do for you?”

Well, for me, it helps me expand. Let’s call it the world, expand that, that realm of expertise. And to now, to one year. We’re celebrating our year anniversary. Now being able to add value, but other than that, creating a program. From this book, I would have not imagined two, three years from now creating an annual program around the book’s core principles and being able to scale that even further.

Rob Kosberg:

Right. Love that. I actually heard you say a couple things. One was clear and that’s basically the scaling and the authority. The other one it sounded like you were beginning to say, and you said a little bit that the book has helped you even change your own perspective of yourself. It’s almost like a reminder of you know what? I’m an author and this wasn’t easy, not everybody is, right? I mean, you’re in competition every day for what you do, right? Just like I am and to say, well, I’m the best-selling author on this topic automatically puts you in the eyes of your prospects at a different level than your competition, but I do believe that it also kind of makes you see yourself a little bit differently as well because you accomplished it. Is that what you were trying to say, or did I just find that?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Well, I think you’re hitting something really important in finishing that sentence for me, but I think it’s true because I started practicing after reading Seth Godin’s work, like, daily writing and daily publishing that writing. And that’s no easy feat either, but it allows me to conceptualize a thought and make it practical and tangible to the reader. And my thing is just doing it, giving information as quickly as possible with fewer redundancies. Again, that’s why the book is only 100 pages long, but it’s also buffing up that skillset. I’ve interviewed other people, successful entrepreneurs are they also share that when they start taking their work seriously, their business, seriously, a lot of great things can happen. You start to make a bigger difference. And that goes back to the self-image concept that if you view yourself and the work you’re doing as important, you’re going to perform better. And that also is inverse with how you help your team view themselves, which we talk about in productive profits, but it’s all interconnected. It’s all about drive and growth.

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. I love that. That’s really good. That’s not something that I talk a lot about with other authors, but I think it’s really true. I have a bachelor’s degree. I’ve never worked a day in my degree, but there were things about having that degree that mattered to me when I was a 22-year-old kid. The fact that I worked my way through school, and made the dean’s list, and graduated with honors, even though I never worked a day in it. I paid for it myself meant something to me, personally. And the fact that I am an author and a multiple best-seller Wall Street Journal best-seller it’s a source of pride, but in the most positive way, I think, and that’s good. That’s good for me to remember. That’s good for you to remember, right? You’ve done something that your competition hadn’t done, and you deserve the rewards for that, so congratulations and very cool.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

I appreciate that. And then you mentioned, too, it’s a positive sort of pride. It isn’t to say, oh, we’re amazing, and if you want to write a book, you’ll be amazing. It’s around the level of responsibility that comes with it because every word you write once you have authority comes with that responsibility. The words you write, the things you say, and how you show up will make a difference to that listener because they’re taking you seriously. And if you give the wrong advice, you can’t control what they do, but you can control the type of advice and the things you put in your writing.

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. Love it. Great discussion. Raul, where’s the best place for people to find you, buy your book, get information about working with you, that kind of thing?

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

Everything’s on the website, dogoodwork.io.

Rob Kosberg:

Love it, dogoodwork.io. Thank you. Thank you for being with me today. Thanks for the great discussion.

Raul Hernandez Ochoa:

It’s a pleasure, Rob.