Yemi Penn is an author of Did You Get The Memo?: Because I F**king Didn’t, documentary producer, speaker, engineer, and all-around fearless thought leader on creating your own memo. A serial entrepreneur with businesses in Sydney, London, and the U.S., Yemi instigates us all to use our trauma as a catalyst for transformation and growth.
Listen to this informative Publish. Promote. Profit. episode with Yemi Penn about using your trauma as a catalyst for growth.
Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show:
– How not all messages are universal, and everyone doesn’t get the same “memo.”
– Why feeling empowered enables people to come up with solutions on their own.
– How eradicating your shame can give you more freedom in your life.
– Why writing a book can lead to you opening new ventures.
– How your book can become your business card.
Connect with Yemi:
Links Mentioned:
yemipenn.com
Guest Contact Info:
Instagram
@yemi.penn
Facebook
facebook.com/YemiPenn
LinkedIn
linkedin.com/in/yemi-penn-nee-solanke-3513411
Rob Kosberg:
Hey, welcome everybody. Rob Kosberg here. I have another great guest for our Publish. Promote. Profit. Podcast. Yemi Penn is the author of, Did You Get The Memo?: Because I F**king Didn’t. Very powerful title there. She’s a documentary producer, speaker, engineer, and all around fearless thought leader on creating your own memo, which I like that, we’re going to get into details on that. She’s a serial entrepreneur with businesses in Sydney, London, and the US. Yemi instigates us all to use our trauma as a catalyst for transformation and growth. Yemi, thank you for being on today. Great to have you on the Publish. Promote. Profit. Podcast.
Yemi Penn:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to share stories and thoughts.
Rob Kosberg:
So, what memo have I maybe not gotten others haven’t gotten about me?
Yemi Penn:
Oh, that’s a very good question. Just imagine all of them. I think there was this secret that, well, I felt there was a secret that everybody else had been told how to live life and how to show up, and it just felt like at some point, I was the only one, because there was a lot of shame attached to it, but it was only when I got brave and I relocated to the other side of the world that I just kind of wished someone would do that genuinely, did you get the memo on how to get it right? And it just became a thing. There’s a possibility we have all missed one memo at some point, or there isn’t one at all. Still trying to find out, Rob.
Rob Kosberg:
Give me some of your top memos because I know you work with other people. Perhaps in helping them, what have you seen that others may have missed, or is it on relationships, life, career, money? Fill in the blank.
Yemi Penn:
Spot on. Absolutely all of those, and I say this not facetiously, but there is a little bit of humor to it, but genuinely because this is where the inconsistencies lie, and this might be where part of the truth is. I think some of the memos we may have missed or that are out there is this memo on an education. There’s a certain way you get an education. Typically, I was told university was the minimum I needed to have in order to be successful, and that’s definitely been questioned time and time again in recent decades, that’s for sure. There’s another one on marriage. The memo around marriage that I got was that it needed to be between a man and a woman, and there was no other love, and you ideally met with someone at university, and you literally stay married for the rest of your life.
So, I’ve already given so many layers there that can be different as we know in the world and have known for decades again. And then yeah, another one, just another simple one is the memo about money. I think that’s the biggest one that we don’t know, because the money stories we all have are so vast, yet it remains the most used resource in the world, and I think I will be looking for that memo or creating a new one probably until my last breath, because now we’ve got cryptocurrency and other stuff. It’s like, “Oh, so what does money really mean?” So yeah, a lot. I could go on, but I want to give you a chance to ask a question.
Rob Kosberg:
Oh, I want to talk about money. I like talking about money.
Yemi Penn:
Yeah. Let’s do it.
Rob Kosberg:
I’m a huge cryptocurrency advocate and have been for over five years now. And so, talk to me about what that means to you. Not the cryptocurrency part, though feel to dive into that. But when you say, I mean, you’re obviously a successful person, you have multiple businesses in multiple countries, and so, when you say you’ll continue to check to see if you’ve gotten the memo until the end of your days, what does that mean? What do you mean by that?
Yemi Penn:
I think the big thing means is that the money story changes all the time. So, in my book, which I’m sure we’ll speak about, there’s a chapter that I call the Genetics of Money, and I love a play on words, because they only have the meanings in which you give them, but the Genetics of Money starts off by what do we inherit, first and foremost, with our money story? What did I hear my parents talk about? Did I hear my parents say, “No, we can’t buy that because we can’t afford it,” or “Money doesn’t grow on trees,” or “You have to work really hard for money,” or “We don’t make money. Other people make money?” What did I inherit that, whether I knew or not, became my mantra, “Money doesn’t grow on trees?” And how much did I take that in?
So, that’s just a baseline, and that’s what I kind of highlight in my book, but then as time has moved on and I’ve kind of squashed that memo and started creating my own, even though I started making more money at like 15X the income I was making, I didn’t know what to do with it, because I’d never received so much money, nor had I ever been trained on what to do with it. I didn’t even understand the concept of investing in property, and that’s where I lost my first batch of money, because I just went to a seminar and put money down, but with no wisdom or knowledge, and then poof, the money was gone.
So, the memo about money I think is a continuous journey, but we’ve got to check, and I’m now doing it again. I was even just clenching, as you said “You own multiple businesses,” because all of a sudden, I don’t want to own multiple businesses. I actually just want to be, and this is something I’m just morphing into. So, the money story changes, I think first with an inheritance, then with our own personal growth, and as life changes, I think it changes as well, and I think most of us fear money, either the accumulation or the loss of it, and we’re just stuck in this conundrum.
Rob Kosberg:
So, related back to the book, obviously your book is your story, but also geared toward helping others with their own memos and stories. Talk me through the journey of that. How do you help people to kind of see what memos they may have missed, and how to be aware of that?
Yemi Penn:
The biggest thing I do is ask questions. I think one of my fears in writing a book, becoming an author, a speaker, and a number of other things was people feeling that I would have the answers for them, and that’s what got me stuck, is thinking that somebody else was always going to come and save me. I think we can look out for people who can do stuff and give us guidance. So, what I do is I ask those really life defining questions that either just come innately, or because I’ve heard other leaders speak about it, but I just had a different tone, because when they think about it, not only are they empowered, they usually come with the answer to the problem that they have.
So, in my book, I kind of share my story first, because I think I’m one of the few who’ve come out and said, “Hey, you know that memo you’ve been following? It turns out firstly, it doesn’t stack up, or that it’s not actually real.” I think in telling my story, I’m giving people permission to speak without shame. Shame is a big part of my book that I think I needed to just eradicate or have less of. So, I give them permission, and then probe them with questions that they can answer, and then they can ask more questions, because asking questions, especially high quality questions, has probably been the biggest part of my freedom.
Rob Kosberg:
I’ve heard, and I love the saying that “The quality of your life is dependent upon the questions that you ask,” so, do you have some… Standard is not a good word, but some regular questions that you ask of yourself and other people, when it comes to them kind of determining what memos may be running?
Yemi Penn:
And once again, very little knowledge is new knowledge, so someone else, I’m sure, would’ve said this, and they’re so basic, but one question is, “Why do you do what you do?” And you even mentioned before we came in, we look at the whys behind things. “Well, why do you do what you do, and is it working out for you?” It’s funny, I’ve asked those two questions to a family friend, and I thought it was just the equivalent of me just saying “Hi, how was your morning?” I asked her, and you could see the cogs in her brain going at such a fast pace, because either she had never stopped to even ask that question, or in asking the question, realize that she was doing something on autopilot, but it turns out it was not working out for her.
Those two questions tend to be big, and I just say, just pause. Just pause and sit with it, and they tend to know whether it is, and honestly, when I’ve asked that question, eight out of 10 times, they haven’t figured out the why, because that’s usually quite deep, but they figure out pretty quickly it’s not working out for them, and then the question continues. “Okay, why do you think that happened?” And so on and so forth.
Rob Kosberg:
I would assume you may get some negative responses now and again, asking that question.
Yemi Penn:
Yes.
Rob Kosberg:
Do you see people get angry, even though I’m sure you ask it with kindness and with love, but the whole “And how’s that working out for you?” Whoo.
Yemi Penn:
Yeah. Well, Rob, I think one of my superpowers is, I know how to give a swift kick, and love, and a hug at the same time. So, I have this skill of putting it together, and to be fair, Rob, I don’t go telling people or just trying to speak to people that haven’t asked. Most of the time, people check in with me, whether they’ve read a story of me going from nothing to making money, or they’ve heard how I’ve changed careers, or being an author changed parts of my life. So, most of the time, they come to me to ask the questions, and I usually see that as a sign of “Okay, they’re open to hearing a different perspective.” So yeah, I haven’t had any fly kicks yet from that question, so I’m good.
Rob Kosberg:
Well, when you mentioned that you asked it of a relative, I was like, “Oh, I don’t know if you want to ask that of your family or friends.”
Yemi Penn:
I know. I had softened her by then, so it was all good.
Rob Kosberg:
That’s good. So, talk to me about your businesses. Are your businesses connected with your book and your mission, or not? I mean, I know there’s always connection in that it maybe gives you the finances to do what it is you want to do, but is there a direct connection with your mission and your businesses right now, or is it more the businesses are a means to an end? And there’s no right or wrong, I’m just wondering.
Yemi Penn:
I guess this is why I love doing podcasts because I learn more about me. There is definitely a connection to every single one of my businesses. I decided to write the book after I’d opened my second business, which was a gym in London, because I felt like it just needed to be documented what had brought me up to this point, and then the book became the catalyst for what I’m calling my mission, which is around the transmuting pain into power, and looking at our trauma. So, it’s definitely been connected.
The original reason for writing a book was I had this fear, I still do, not as much, that I might leave this earth before my time, and never get to tell my kids my version of the story from my side, and I just needed to document it in a way that could potentially be in the ethers, for whatever eternity is. So, that probably is the nucleus of why I wrote the book, but absolutely, now it’s attached to every single venture I’ve either opened and closed. Yeah.
Rob Kosberg:
I’m in the book business, so what am I going to say? But I feel like it’s a shame that there’s so much wisdom that’s not passed on from one generation to the next, because people never document it, they never write it down. And I mean, I have a number of my ancestors that I would’ve just loved to get a few pages even of just what they went through, and my family came from Russia at the turn of the 19th century, late 1800s. They were persecuted in Russia, and left, and came through New York, and I want to know. Give me a page, one page of what that was like, two pages of what that was like.
I got nothing, and I mean, I haven’t had to do anything that dramatic, but whatever there was that was dramatic, I try to document those things in the same way that… I love what you said. I’m glad you documented that for your kids and for whoever would read it, not the least of which will help people, but I think ancestors that you don’t even know will one day get ahold of you and go, “Wow. How cool.”
Yemi Penn:
Yes, yes.
Rob Kosberg:
“Wish I could’ve known her.” You know?
Yemi Penn:
Yes. Oh my gosh. I mean, just you talking about that rich history you have, my brain just goes in, wouldn’t it be good if we could just give everyone a template like, “We just need you to write, ‘What do know that you wish…'” Just give a template for people to just share in their lifetime, and if they could do it at certain increments, because we never know when we’re going to go, honestly, Rob, I think we would solve most of the world’s problems. It’s a double-edged sword where people don’t want to talk about their business, but I then think we share your business so that we cannot repeat the same mistakes, or know why something happened to a place, so we can continue in your honor. I mean, damn, I want to know more about that story.
Rob Kosberg:
Isn’t it amazing? I mean, this world has existed for so long, but we know so little in one sense, beyond what we have right in front of our faces, and honestly, even with the way we watch history be rewritten, with our own eyes, we’re like, “Oh my gosh, how much of the history that we weren’t around for can we even trust or believe?”
It’s like the older are, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, man.” I love reading, especially historical stuff, so that it would be more meaningful if I had that from my own family, and so again, congratulations for doing that.
Yemi Penn:
Thank you.
Rob Kosberg:
I think that’s a great motivation. Obviously, it’s gone far beyond that, helping others, and even helping yourself, which I guess I’d love to kind of transition and ask you about that. You wrote it for one purpose, as you just explained, but I would also assume that the book has done things for you outside of that purpose. And so, I always like to know, how are you using your book to get more of what it is you want, whatever that is? To get your message out, speaking, to grow a business where you’re helping people or not? Talk to me about how you’re using your book, or if you are in that way.
Yemi Penn:
There are parts of me that don’t feel I use my book as much as I could with some of the other things I do, and I’m beginning to learn that. I’m sure you’ve heard it before, but I was advised when I first wrote my book, even though the first intention was just to get it out, is that my book becomes my business card as a speaker. It becomes the content that everyone can hold onto for conversation, for further digging, for invitations to stages.
When I did my book launch, because I like talking, and I tend to convince myself, “Well, I’m not a writer, because I’m an engineer,” so my book is like this thick, because I’m like, “Less words and more formulas,” but I just must focus on the content and getting it out. But when I did my book launch, I remember a publisher, a publishing rep was there and I was signing, and she said, “You’re going to need to get a lot faster at signing, because people are going to want to know more about your story, and you need to keep building these assets,” and I was like, “What assets?”
And I just think I couldn’t quite figure out what she meant. And she said, “Basically, this book is one of your first assets. You need to start building other stuff,” and from that, I built an online course, because people read it, and they typically want to know more. “Well, how can I do this? How can I do that?” So, without not wanting to tell people, I’d decided to create a manual, as I call it, which is just like a create your own memo online course. And then from that, I would have what webinars from my book, which was just genius. Every single one of my chapters equates into a speaking topic. So it was like in writing the book, I had somewhat created so many other revenues, it’s just that I hadn’t put it together for quite a few years.
So, that’s what I put to a speaking agent. I was able to get a speaking agent a couple of years ago, and so, I get booked for speaking, and then also actually writing that book helped me to get a place for a PhD at a university here in Sydney, Australia. So once again, things I didn’t plan, but have worked out, and the book is like the gift that keeps on giving, because every now and again, someone quotes me on Instagram and I’m like, “Say what? What, what, what? Where did you get that from? I wrote that?”
Rob Kosberg:
Boy, you said something I’ve never heard before, and I’m intrigued by it. I love using it for speaking. I would maybe challenge you a little. Your book is your best asset, and use it in everything. I mean, our clients, we cold email it, cold mail it to people. In fact, over the next four weeks, I am mailing a thousand copies of my book, which is no small sum to do that, but I’m mailing a thousand copies to CEOs of companies between 20 million and a hundred million, with a sales letter, and then a personal URL where they will be able to get in touch directly with me, because that’s what I do. We ghost write, we do book publishing, but that is part of our campaign, is putting my Wall Street Journal bestselling book in their hands. So, I’m not suggesting you need to do that, but that you can use it, oh, it’s going to blow your message up, getting it in people’s hands. But you just said something that’s really cool, you said about it helping you to land your place in your PhD studies. Could you talk to me about that? I hadn’t heard that from anybody before. I had always believed that it could help in that way, but I’ve never seen anyone use it that way.
Yemi Penn:
Oh, it has, and it’s not going to be as profound as you probably think it is, but so I wanted to do a PhD, and I didn’t want to study again. That was the first thing. I’d managed to convince myself, I just didn’t want to do it, and I think that’s because of, I don’t know, the stigma attached to it, and then four years. But when I had the topic and I finally found a supervisor, I just told her my story. Once again, that’s related to the book. I just told her my story. I didn’t overthink it. I didn’t try to over-academize it, it was that.
Then she got somebody else, and she seemed to be impressed, and then she got someone else who was going to officially be my supervisor, and she said, “Do you have any experience? Have you done major research? Have you done this?” And I hadn’t. I had a master’s, but I didn’t really classify that that was just trying to get through it. And then she said, “Have you written a book?” And I said, “Yes,” and she said, “Is it published or self-published?” And this is where I thought, “Okay, this is where it’s going to fall down,” I said, “I self-published.” She said, “Okay, it doesn’t matter. What was your process for writing it? What level of internal research did you do? What external research?” Didn’t need to be fiction, and just that alone, she kind of highlighted me a skill I didn’t know I had had in writing a book.
It was research of some sort, and when you go back into academics, I’ve completely underestimated how much they appreciate research. It’s the reason for the peer reviews, even the world we live in today, every time someone had a question on what was going on in the world, it was, “Has it been peer reviewed?” Now, I have some questions, I think there’s some limitations, but that was really huge to them saying, “Okay, yep. We can go prove to the board that you are ready to do a PhD,” and I’ve managed to convince them to let me do it half book and half documentary, so I’m winning. I don’t have to write too many words.
Rob Kosberg:
My son, when getting into college, he wanted to get in for physics and math in a prestigious university, and it was more like me than his mom, and just blew off the first couple years of high school. And so, he didn’t have great grades, but I said, “I bet if we did a book, I bet it would help you land it.” Now, he ended up landing it anyway, and we never did the book, but I always thought that a book could help with that. So, here we go. I mean, you are proof positive that it could work that way.
Great. So, talk to me about, I guess sum all of this up for those that are listening. We know we have these internal programs running. We know we have memos that we maybe are latched onto others that we’ve never gotten. What are the first steps? What’s the process that somebody needs to take to just begin kind of thinking, “Is there part of my life that maybe I’m missing out on?” Or does that even matter? Where does somebody begin with that? And your book is a great place and we’ll give them links to that, but even before that, where would they begin?
Yemi Penn:
Oh, when I get asked questions, I tend to get, and I try to sift it while the person comes towards the end of the question, and this is exactly what went through my head, the dialogue, the first thing was feelings. How do they feel? And then the other part of my head said, “No one let’s talk about feelings, Yemi,” and then something said, “No, we really need to talk about feelings, because that’s what’s going to evoke people, asking themselves those high quality questions, and taking action.” So, and you might need to guide me, because my brain went all over the place.
Rob Kosberg:
So, how do they feel about their life? How they feel about their relationships, how they feel about their job, like if there’s a lack of satisfaction, then something is wrong?
Yemi Penn:
Absolutely, and some people don’t want to just do that general stuff, and if that’s the case and you don’t want to ask those questions, just notice how you’re feeling, full stop. If you wake up one day, you’re feeling sad, frustrated, just sit with the feeling, sit with the discomfort. You hear “Get comfortable with being uncomfortable,” and figure out what it is. If you don’t want to go through every single dial of life, no problem. Just focus on your feeling, and it will lead you.
Sunday, kind of like 7:00 PM, I start to feel churns in my stomach, because Monday’s coming, but I remember only feeling that when I was working in the typical nine to five. I don’t work in that field anymore, so I’m thinking, “What is the issue?” And the issue is that the weekend of true freedom is about to leave me. So, I think I still have to go change how I show up in the week, because I have this really awful pit in my stomach, and that’s why I say just follow the feeling, and it will take you to what probably needs to change.
Rob Kosberg:
Where are some links where people can get your book, learn more about you, connect with you, perhaps for speaking or something like that?
Yemi Penn:
All my stuff is on my website, which is yemipennn.com. My most true self, where I kind of just spurt what I’m feeling, is also on Instagram, which is @yemi.penn. So that’s where you’ll find the realest Yemi with the jokes and the thought-provoking stuff as well, for sure.
Rob Kosberg:
Yemi, thank you. Thanks for sharing today. Thanks for giving your best stuff. I enjoyed it. Thanks for opening my eyes to using a book to get your PhD placement. So, I love it. I love to hear something new.
Yemi Penn:
Thank you so much, Rob. Thank you.
