Taking Back Control of Your Financial Future with a Book featuring Mark Willis

Mark Willis is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™, a three-time Best Selling Author and the owner of Lake Growth Financial Services, in Chicago, Illinois. Over the years, he has helped hundreds of his clients take back control of their financial future and build their businesses with proven, tax-efficient financial solutions.

As co-host of the Not Your Average Financial Podcast™, he shares his strategies for investing in real estate, paying for college without going broke, and creating an income in retirement you will not outlive.

 

Listen to this informative Publish. Promote. Profit. episode with Mark Willis about learning to take control of your financial future.

 

Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show:

– Why people are exhausted with traditional finance methods.

– How having a 401k may not be enough to take care of your retirement needs.

– Why taxes are still going to go up no matter who is in control of the White House.

– How it’s the people who control the banking who hold all the power.

– Why paying cash for goods and services takes away your opportunity to grow that money.

 

Connect with Mark:

Links Mentioned:
bit.ly/boyrealestate

Rob Kosberg:

Hey, welcome, everybody. It’s Rob Kosberg back with another episode of the Publish Promote Profit podcast. I got a great guest today in the financial field. Mark Willis is a certified financial planner, a three-time best-selling author and the owner of Lake Growth Financial Services in Chicago. Over the years, he’s helped hundreds of us clients take back control of their financial future and build their businesses with proven tax-efficient financial solutions. We need that more than ever these days. Mark is also the co-host of his own podcast, Not Your Average Financial Podcast. Love the name. He shares his strategies for investing in real estate, paying for college without going broke, and creating an income in retirement that you will not outlive. That is the whole idea of retirement. Right? So Mark, thanks so much for being on. Looking forward to hearing about your wisdom.

Mark Willis:

Thanks, Rob. Thanks for having me on.

Rob Kosberg:

I think it’ll be fun. As we were saying, we’re both quite familiar with the podcast idea, and so I love to be spontaneous with things. I do know a bit about the financial services space. I was on your website. I was trying to learn a little bit more. It looks like one of your focuses is infinite banking. Maybe we could take a minute and you could explain to me who your average client is and what the Mark magic is that you would put somebody through the five steps, six steps, whatever, to take them from where they’re at to where they want to be. That’s a mouthful.

Mark Willis:

Thank you, Rob. Yeah. Well, I’ll say that people are tired of the oh-so-average way of doing things with finance. We’ve seen the end result of the failed experiment that is the 401k. I know that’s a bold opinion, but here we are now. We’re 40 years into the 401k experiment. And are we better off as a country as a result? I would contend, no, we are not. I actually met a guy who got his 401k the first year they offered in 1981, met a guy, still working 40 years later. And he had only a couple hundred grand in that 401k after all those years. Now some people might say, “Wow, a couple hundred grand. That sounds great.” But the math works out.

Rob Kosberg:

Not after 40 years.

Mark Willis:

Yeah. Not after 40 years. Yeah. The math works out that he’s going to have about 300 or 400 bucks a month he can live on after 40 years of company matches and… No, by the way, that’s a tax deferred financial vehicle. Now what does defer mean? It just means push out into the future. Wait until later. And I believe taxes are like a root canal. Rob, maybe you agree. And would you really want to defer your root canal for 30 or 40 years like that?

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. I don’t think so.

Mark Willis:

It’s only going to be worse.

Rob Kosberg:

We want to get it over with as soon as possible or whatever.

Mark Willis:

That’s right. Especially if you think like most of our clients that taxes are likely going to go higher in the future. Who knows when? I don’t care who the president is or who Congress is. The math party is going to win the election. The math party is going to win the election and taxes are very likely going to go up over our lifetime. So why push that out into the future? That’s the failed experiment of the 401k. Now, Rob, you asked a question. I’ll finally get to it. We look at strategies outside of Wall Street, and we are a full financial firm. I’m a certified financial planner.

 

So, we do take a comprehensive approach to people’s overall financial objectives. And we don’t have an allergic reaction to stocks and investing, but we just think that you can take more control, especially if you’re a business owner, especially if you’re into real estate investing, especially if you’re looking to take some control over your money without losing the opportunity to let it grow for you or to have access to it. That’s really our sweet spot, the people we love to work with. And we use a tool called bank on yourself. Some people call it infinite banking. That helps people do take control of their future without taking unnecessary risk.

Rob Kosberg:

So, for those that aren’t familiar with banking on yourself, why don’t you explain the idea in as simple terms as possible? I have a number of policies myself. I love it. It is something that I wish I’d learned about 20 or 30 years ago. So explain the concept there and how someone might be able to use it.

Mark Willis:

Well, you’re among a very special, select group of people who understand that banking is the solution, but banks are the problem. I would say that more people, if even just 10% of America began doing what you’re already doing, Rob, think of what that would do to the overall economy, the credit card industry, the mortgage industry. So here it is in plain, simple language, as best as I can. It doesn’t matter what you got on your mutual funds last year so much as it matters who’s in control of the banking function in your life. Whoever’s sitting behind the banker’s desk is going to win in the financial game in your life.

 

I drove through a small town in Texas. I used to live in Texas for a couple of years going to school in the desert, as I say, and always, there were three buildings in these small little Texas towns. There was the bank, the church, and the bar. Yeah. And that was the order most people lived their lives. First, they go to the bank, get into debt, then they go to the church to pray for help, and then they end up at the bar to drink their sorrows away. The banks take the profits. That’s why they’re the biggest buildings in town.

 

And so, if you could become your own banker, not just be debt-free. That’s not the answer. Why is debt-free the answer? No. That’s like living your life on the starting block of your marathon. I don’t want to live my life right on the starting line of my race. I want to go far.

Rob Kosberg:

We start life debt-free, don’t we?

Mark Willis:

That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. You can’t take it with you and you’re not born with anything. So if you want to be better than debt-free, you got to be the bank. And that’s where you can pay yourself and borrow from yourself and actually profit from your own projects, whether it’s buying a car or sending your kid to college or investing in your business. Okay. So I’ll quickly wrap this up, but essentially it’s using an asset that’s been around or 200-plus years. It’s guaranteed to grow for you every single year outside of the stock Market by a contract issued by an insurance company. It’s an insurance policy, in fact. It’s a dividend-paying, whole life insurance policy.

 

And if it’s carefully constructed the right way, you can use it, have access to the money with no taxes due. That’s cool. It grows on a guaranteed basis every single year, no matter what the markets are doing. That’s awesome if you’re a business owner and needing some predictable growth, place to park your profits. It is life insurance, of course. So we can always leave our families more than we could save for them. And then finally, you can use it like a bank in that you can borrow against the policy itself. And when you do that, you are in control. You’re in the driver’s seat. You could borrow 100 grand from your policy and then pay it back over two months or two years or 25 years. And while you have that loan outstanding… And this is the mind-blowing part to this whole thing, Rob. As you have that loan outstanding, the policy will continue to grow even on that capital that you borrowed, as if you had not touched a dime of it. It’s remarkable.

Rob Kosberg:

Instead of borrowing that money at 25%, 11%, even 7%, 6%, 5% in the form of a mortgage or whatever. So yeah. It’s definitely something for people to pay attention to. I’m sure we’ll give them some links so they can learn a little bit more about that from you, your website, your resources, that kind of thing. You’ve said something that intrigues me and that I’ve thought a lot about in the last probably four or five years, but more than ever the last six months. And that is control. So I wonder what your thoughts are. We of course have come through a pandemic, which seemingly is over in that the media isn’t speaking about it any longer, how much it is or isn’t or was or wasn’t is I guess, questionable, and in 50 or 100 years, they’ll look back and try to figure that out.

 

But now we are experiencing this terrible crisis in the Ukraine. Russia has all kinds of reserves, billions and billions of dollars, which the West has now cut them off from money and reserves that are actually theirs from the banking system, in essence, taking their control away from even resources that are theirs and money that is theirs. I’m not saying that what they’re doing is right. I’m not arguing for against it. I’m just stating a fact. Of course, what happened a few weeks ago, which is no longer being spoken about where Trudeau took power and with a terrorist type clause, basically confiscated people’s bank accounts that even gave $50 through a GoFundMe to the trucker protest. Again, not speaking for or against any of this, but people for the first time lost control of their money because it was sitting in banks or because it was sitting in a more federal institution which they thought was safe.

Mark Willis:

Even crypto. Even crypto has been seized. Right?

Rob Kosberg:

That’s right. So talk to me about that. What is your thought on that? I didn’t think we go in this direction, but you said control three or four times and I’m like, “Okay, this is interesting. Let’s talk about it.”

Mark Willis:

Yeah. Well, what’s the common denominator? Banking, right?

Rob Kosberg:

Yes.

Mark Willis:

There’s a book by David Graeber, Rob. The book is called Debt: The First 5000 Years. Debt: The First 5000 Years. Let that title sink in for a minute. I wish you would help publish that book because boy, it’s a doozy. But my goodness, it’s proof that we have this banking DNA embedded right into the human project. It’s as old as friendship. It’s as old as cave paintings. Banking is going to be around for a long time. And whoever controls the banking function, whether it’s a personal family or individual or business owner or a country, whoever controls the banking is going to win. That’s my prediction. I don’t know the future, but I know the past. I can at least learn from the past. And whoever is in control of the banking function will win. And so you’re right. There’s a big part of the equation of a lot of the news cycle today that talks about banking.

 

But that was true in 2008. That was true in the 1980s savings and loans crisis, in the 1980s, and keep going back, the Federal Reserve’s massive money-printing projects, the Great Depression of the ’30s, it’s all related back to banks and banking. And clear back to 1913 when we had the establishment of the Federal Reserve bank. I do not wear a tin foil hat. I don’t believe in conspiracies, but I believe that there are no coincidences. That’s for sure. So with all that in mind, what could you do to not just protect yourself from somebody? Because maybe you have a different political leaning. Maybe just replace Biden with Trump or some other red or blue. And replace the issue of the truckers with something that you really care about if you don’t-

Rob Kosberg:

Exactly. Makes no difference.

Mark Willis:

It makes no difference.

Rob Kosberg:

You don’t have control.

Mark Willis:

Would you want a $50 donation to ruin your life because you happen to say the wrong thing or tweet the wrong thing or donate to the wrong cause? And that to me is the problem. And if we can bring banking back down to the you and me level, not only can we secede from that project of letting someone else outsource our banking function, but we can actually take advantage of the banking function.

 

I’ll tell you a quick story that’s a little more lighthearted. Have a client who… He’s a very successful painter, painting houses, et cetera, couple million bucks a year in revenue. Good for him. Couple of employees. And he was paying several thousand bucks a month in interest. Okay? It totaled to about 30% of his revenue just paying banks, these guys like Kabbage and some other business lines of credit and so forth. High interest. I mean, we’re talking very high interest. Two even three-digit interest rates.

 

So given that, he’s got this massive boulder on him, and these banks are sucking him dry. He called them leaches. And one step at a time, he set up a couple of these bank on yourself designed whole life policies, and he bought back all of his debt one by one from these sharks, these leeches. And now he pays himself that same payment to himself on his own standard, on his own control. He could skip a few payments. He could not pay at all, wait until a good client comes through and pay off the loan to the policy. If you never pay off the policy, it just deducts from the death benefit when you pass away.

 

So, I always recommend folks, at least look at this. Keep an open mind. Don’t necessarily take the average advice of the, as I say, the oh-so-average financial media who tells you to put it all in the stock market. Well, why do you think they’re telling you to put it in the stock market? If you ask a barber if you need a haircut, you can bet what his answer’s going to be. So think for yourself. That’s the problem. I think most people don’t think. And I think myself included. I, for a very long time, just took the average advice. And there’s an old quote that says, “10% of people think. Another 10% think that they think. And the rest of us would rather die than think.” So be a part of that 10% and think for yourself. Think why is this happening. And what can you do to not just protect yourself from the likes of politicians or mega banks or whatever, but also to profit from the situation.

Rob Kosberg:

And one thing I don’t want to do is make this more complicated than it is because in one sense, you only have to think about this once or twice, and then you can automate it, and you can set things up so that just like your normal banking processes, you are doing these things with your infinite banking or your banking on yourself processes, just like you took the painter from relying on these high interest rate loans, and eventually… He only had to think about it once or twice and really figure out what’s better for me. And then you installed a process, I assume, that just moved everything over. Now. He never has to really think about that again. And of course, we’ll give them some… Whether it’s your Lake Growth website or we’ll give them some links where they can learn more about this.

 

But look, this is this is in everybody’s best interest to really consider this stuff. I mean, we’re on the verge of losing reserve currency status, the US dollar. We’re certainly seeing things change that probably most of us in our lifetime… and I’m 57… have never seen before. The next few year are going to be very tumultuous, I think. And we need to be prepared as much as possible for that.

Mark Willis:

That’s right. Yeah. If I could just put a fine point on that, I think the painter friend and client, of which we have over 1,000 clients all across the country in all 50 states, we meet with them over Zoom, over the phone. And it’s a picture of what it looks when you take the baby steps toward these processes and controls. We have a trademarked process called the debt snowball bank method, not the debt snowball method, the debt snowball bank method. And the concept there is there’s something better than just being debt-free. He could have just paid off those old sharks, those old leeches, and just paid cash for all of his paint and all that. But what’s the good of that, right? What’s the problem with paying cash for things?

 

Well, when you pay cash for inventory or your next car or your kid’s college, if you pay cash for all that stuff, you’ve lost the opportunity to keep growing that money for the rest of your life. Someone taught me, “Mark, don’t do what banks are telling you to do with your money. Instead, watch what they’re doing and go do that instead.” So what this gentleman has learned to do is to think and act like a bank where you borrow against yourself, just like banks do. When they take a deposit from Rob or Mark, that money goes into a deposit account and sits there in a vault. Right? They don’t touch it? No, of course not. The bank immediately lends it out to the next guy behind us in line and takes a massive, immense amount of, obscene amounts of profit off that.

Rob Kosberg:

While paying you 0.1% or whatever.

Mark Willis:

I agree with you on the recklessness of the project that we’re on as a country. But I don’t know if you have to agree with either Rob or me to think about this carefully. Look at where your money is going and look at what it’s doing. When you put money into real estate, when you put money into stocks, especially stocks, bonds, mutual funds. I call those retail amateur investment products. When you put money into those, they’re essentially paper wealth going up and down, right? When you have your money in cash, like a savings, money market, checking, savings, you’ve put your faith behind the almighty dollar, which is going to go up and down. But if you have contracts with a private institution… And contracts might be a real estate deal.

 

I mean, what’s the only thing that really makes real estate real? It’s the paper contract that backs that real estate. Otherwise, all you have is squatter’s rights. And the same is true with insurance contracts. If you don’t have a contract with your wealth, with your future, you’re not going to make it. You got to have a contract written with your future guaranteed to meet that obligation for your family or your future retirement.

 

Have a contract with your future. And that’s what insurance contracts are really allowing us to do. It’s the only thing I’m aware of as a CFP that actually has a guarantee that you’re going to meet your obligation for your retirement. Hate to be like that guy who started a 401k 40 years ago and has nothing really to show for it much after all those years. Rather, it’s neat to see… And Rob, you might attest to this too. It’s neat to see that, “Hey, I can look at my statement here today. And there’s a projection in my contract with this insurance company that says I’m going to have X million dollars by the time I’m 65 or whatever.” It says the word guarantee right there. That’s pretty neat. I don’t know if you’d factor that into your conversations or not, Rob, but it’s huge.

Rob Kosberg:

There’s a reason that I did it, and I did it as a business owner. I wanted as a business owner… And anybody that is a business owner, pay attention to this. As a business owner, I wanted my money to be safe. I wanted my money to be accessible as I need it. And I wanted my money to grow, which the bank was not allowing for. So if I carry several hundred thousand dollars in my account because I have a business and I need access to that, then yes, I have control, I have access to it, but it’s not growing for me. There is no future for that money. In fact, with inflation, it is losing perhaps 6% or 7% of its value every single year. So I need to do something about that. And that’s part of why I did this.

 

So, I took several contracts out, as you described, and I have access to that capital. I bought a piece of real estate last year. How did I do it? I borrowed against myself for that real estate purchase, and I’m paying back myself happily, because it’s me. It’s all me.

Mark Willis:

That’s great. How cool is that? That’s awesome, Rob. Well, congratulations finding that step toward freedom. That’s awesome. And for business owners out there, don’t think that it’s just overnight. I’d say quickly to anybody listening that it’s not a get-rich-quick scheme. It’s certainly not. It’s get rich for sure, but it’s not get rich quick, and you’ve been very patient with your capital, Ron, to be able to build up wealth in order to be able to make that deal with the real estate, I’m sure. But what a cool benefit you get for being patient. And so well done, man. That’s awesome.

Rob Kosberg:

Thank you. This is great. I mean, people need to hear this. I hope it’s helpful to people. And as I said, we’ll give them some links. But let’s change gears. Let’s talk about your books because our listener either is an author or is looking to use their books or potential books in the future to attract new clients, speaking engagements, et cetera. So you’ve written several books that you’ve participated in. And I know it’s not easy to write a book. We’ve done a whole lot of them. So it’s difficult even with a team like mine. No one does more than one unless they’re receiving benefit. So talk to me about how you use your books, what you do with your books to grow your business and attract more clients.

Mark Willis:

Well, thank you. And you guys are… I’m most impressed with the process to get to the point where you’ve published as many books as you have. So you’re obviously onto something important there. My personal experience with book publishing is I need a friend to do it with me to make it possible, to keep me accountable to it. And so coauthoring with important influencers, if you want to use that loaded term, but just mastermind leaders, people who are making a difference in their community, people who have communities of practice that they’re embedded into, I think that’s been a real key for me. Yeah. So in all three of my bestselling books, I was certainly riding on the coattails of some real experts that I was not only able to write the content with, but embed that book right into a community that was just hungry for the content.

 

So, for us, I’ll give a couple of examples. The book, How to Be an Amazon Legend and Fire Your Banker! Well, you can already tell what some of that content’s going to be about, right, Rob?

Rob Kosberg:

Sure. That’s all we’ve been talking about.

Mark Willis:

That’s right, man. Well, I always say you got to be a specialist at something, or you’ll be a specialist at nothing, and you’ll be paid like a specialist of nothing. So be a specialist, first of all. So we found that that’s one of the small hinges that can swing the big door in one’s financial life is to take back control of that banking function. So the book How to Be an Amazon Legend and Fire Your Banker! was a book to a specific audience, a community, a mastermind group called Amazon Legends. And they are several thousand members who have e-commerce, business owner, websites on Amazon or Walmart, or all these different e-delivery platforms. Right? And they’re all selling inventory and products and lots of stuff, everything from groceries to blankets and electric blankets and all this stuff in between.

 

So anyway, they all need big inventory surges, especially in Q4, and Q4 has this funny way of coming around every year. So having a big pile of contingent capital sitting, ready to go, dry powder, to deploy for all that inventory in a policy, let’s say, where you can borrow against it and it keeps growing as if you hadn’t borrowed against the cash. So if I borrowed out 30 grand for inventory, I’ve got the inventory on the shelves of my e-commerce site, but I’ve also got the policy growing at a modest 4%, 5%, 6%. That’s a great deal. That’s some arbitrage right there in the world of business. We love that stuff.

 

And then they can take their time selling the inventory at a higher price to pay it off on their own terms rather than rushing to get it paid off before the credit card comes due or Amazon Lending or payables.com starts begging them and wrecking down their door at dinnertime. So that was the first book. And again, I wrote it, co-authored it with Danny Stock, who was the leader of that mastermind group. And that really is what promoted it to bestseller, because they all just gobbled it up. And thankfully, we had that option to do that. And it further embeds me in the community. Hopefully, we’re right directly to that audience. And we’re able to not just write it for the general someone, we’ve got someone very specific in mind.

Rob Kosberg:

And outside of that audience, I mean, you have other books as well. Are there some specific things that you do with your book for your own even local marketing that you’re doing in the Chicago area? Or as you said, you have 1,000 clients throughout the country. Certainly some came from launching within that Amazon community, which very, very smart. I love that. Other things. Do you use your book? Do you do speaking engagements or have you used your books to get on media? Actually, we are on this podcast today because of your book. So that’s at least one example, but others like that?

Mark Willis:

There you go. Yeah. I’ve had the privilege of coauthoring another book with Moneeka Sawyer, and she’s famous. Her podcast is… Let’s see. It’s Real Estate Investing for Women. The book is of the same title. And I don’t know how she got me in that book, being of the male persuasion here, but she had me on, and I’ve been able to then speak to her audience. Again, most of our business is national. So Chicago land is where I live, but most of our clients actually are outside of Chicago land. We’ve got some local of course, but probably the vast majority are outside since we do everything virtually. And it’s just been great to lead with that and to offer my book chapters as free material for folks that want to get to know me, date me a little bit before they sign up for a 15-minute phone call where we chat a bit more about their personal situation.

 

So that’s been a really great opportunity. And I’d say for the most part, it’s just been… Don’t count your book, as you probably have shared, Rob. Don’t count your book as your big moneymaker. It’s more of the best business card you could possibly have, and it opens the door to many great conversations and joint ventures.

Rob Kosberg:

It changes the framing of who a person is speaking to when they know that you’re an author, because it’s so difficult to write a great book. When they know that you’ve done that and that your books have been successful, they’ve sold a lot of copies, it just changes the frame. All of a sudden… You talked a moment ago about being a specialist. We teach our clients something called the hierarchy of desire. And in most industries, everybody is a generalist, and the generalist, even doctors, and even those that are highly educated, they make the least amount of money in their profession. If you want to make more money, if you want to serve more people, then you need to rise up that hierarchy of desirability, which is with a book, with media appearances, with specialist, expert, thought leader, even celebrity status, which comes with TV, radio, multiple books, et cetera.

 

And that changes the complete frame. Now somebody is chasing you instead of you chasing them to become a customer. And so love that. I think what you’re doing is obviously solid. It’s working for you. And what you’re doing in serving people is working for others. So love that. And congrats on that.

Mark Willis:

Rob, well, you’ve really figured out the business model of the future. We’re no longer in the yellow pages. There is no local financial advisor shop that your grandpa went to when he was just getting set up or whatever. I would say in general, we’re looking for people that can solve our problem and are speaking our language. And I agree with you. And who is it who said you’d rather have 1,000 true fans than 1 million casual acquaintances, whatever. Forgive me, I’m going to butcher that quote. But being famously influential to a small group of people makes a great deal of sense to me. And it just seems like a more sane, more enjoyable life than trying to chase people down and beg them to pay attention because we’re all so scattered and there’s so much to go into this little brain of mine and with all of ours. And so being ready and I guess to attract rather than to just pull people in is probably just a better, more sane life for me.

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. Well, for me too. I know what it’s like to cold call. I know what it’s to knock on doors. I did that as a younger person. This is much preferable.

Mark Willis:

Yeah. Well, hey, and I’ll just maybe say something that I don’t know if your audience has heard before, but have you ever been to the park? And I don’t know. Do you have kids or have older kids grow up?

Rob Kosberg:

I have three boys. They’re older. Yeah.

Mark Willis:

Cool. So when they were young, you’d go to the park and you’d be watching your kids play, whatever. And I always felt like… I’m going to say something that’s going to sound weird. But when you knew that this is another parent across the park and he or she’s watching his kid play or her kid play, you knew that they at least were a good enough human being to raise a child, right? That they had the patience and the capacity to bring a child to a park on a beautiful sunny day. They’re at least reasonably enough adjusted to life that you could approach them and say hello, versus say somebody you just randomly saw on the street. Does that distinction make sense?

 

So, if you’ve written a book, okay, if you’ve written a book, you at least have the professionalism, the patience, the thoughtfulness to have something more than just some scam artist who’s hanging his shingle or her shingle to rip you off. So looking for those with a book in their hand, who’s written that book, you at least know that they’re a specialist, your word, that gives you the confidence that you can trust that person, at least to have a 15-minute phone call with them if nothing else.

Rob Kosberg:

Totally agree.

Mark Willis:

Strange analogy.

Rob Kosberg:

Yeah. It is, but it lands. Mark, great to have you on. Where can people learn a little bit more about you? Let’s give them some links so they can learn about the whole infinite banking, bank on yourself concept, et cetera.

Mark Willis:

Well, I’ve got a free chapter of one of my books. If you go to bit.ly/boyrealestate. And you can connect with me, get to know us a bit, find our podcast link, and sign up on there to meet with me for 15 minutes. And also, of course, get a couple of chapters from the book Real Estate Investing for Women. And even if you’re of the male persuasion like I am, I think you’ll still get some value out of it.

Rob Kosberg:

Well, we’ll put those links in the show notes as well and make sure everybody has those. Thanks so much for being on. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with authenticity and helping our audience to bank on themselves, which is something that obviously I believe in and I think they should be doing. So thank you, my friend.

Mark Willis:

Awesome. Thank you, Rob.