Jason Lauritsen is transforming management as a keynote speaker, trainer, and author. He liberates managers from outdated and inhumane practices so they can cultivate human potential at work and improve people’s lives.
Jason is the author of two books, Unlocking High Performance: How to use performance management to engage and empower employees to reach their full potential and Social Gravity: Harnessing the Natural Laws of Relationships.
Listen to this informative Publish. Promote. Profit. episode with Jason Lauritsen about transforming management through a book.
Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show:
– How most managers are incorrectly taught how to get people to produce their best work.
– Why it’s important to foster better relationships in the workplace.
– How managers need to treat their employees as unique and talented humans.
– How many people aren’t being paid enough to care about the work they do.
– Why you don’t have to write a book with the objective to sell it.
Connect with Jason:
Links Mentioned:
cultivayo.com
Rob Kosberg:
All right. Hey, welcome everybody. It’s Rob here with another episode of our Publish. Promote. Profit. podcast. Excited to be with you. Got a great guest. Jason Lauritsen is transforming management as a keynote speaker, trainer, and author. He’s the best-selling author of two books. You can see behind him: Unlocking High Performance: How to use performance management to engage and empower employees to reach their full potential; and Social Gravity: Harnessing the Natural Laws of Relationships. Jason liberates managers from outdated and inhumane practices, I’ve got to hear about the inhumane practices, so they can cultivate human potential at work and improve people’s lives. Jason, good to have you here, my friend. Looking forward to a good conversation.
Jason Lauritsen:
Thanks for having me, Rob.
Rob Kosberg:
Tell me, like in a nutshell, who you serve, what you do, like what your magic is. Obviously, I explained your bio, but give us maybe in layman’s terms who you work with and what your magic is to help him.
Jason Lauritsen:
I mean the most fundamental thing that I do I think is help managers understand that a lot of what they’ve been taught about how to get the best out of their people is nonsense and that there is a way that is much more human to approach it. And it’s really based most fundamentally in relationships. It’s based in fostering better relationships. It’s based in having a deeper understanding of what people really need to be whole and to be successful, and then giving that to them. And so that is, I think, tactically what I do. And I would say my Don Quixote kind of tilting at windmills thing is I’m trying to make work suck less for people. Like, I really believe that work doesn’t have to be dreadful. It doesn’t have to be a burden. It doesn’t have to… It shouldn’t be something that wears you down. It should be something that lifts you up and energizes you and gives you meaning and purpose. And so that’s kind of my big vision for my work.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. That’s awesome. Well explained. Thank you. Can you differentiate for me inhumane practices versus more human type practices? Like, are there some categories or a way that that can be described?
Jason Lauritsen:
Well, I mean, I think… Clearly, Rob, you’re an entrepreneur probably, so you haven’t worked for anyone in a while I would guess.
Rob Kosberg:
Long time.
Jason Lauritsen:
Which is why you’re puzzled by that. Anybody that’s-
Rob Kosberg:
I am unemployable. No question about it.
Jason Lauritsen:
Yeah. As am I. As am I. And which is one of the ironies of my work that I help other people learn how to be better employers and I’m unemployable. But I think people that are living in it or have been in it, the inhumane piece of it is just treating like a means or a mechanism of production. Right? And that’s traditionally how work was structured. That’s what I write about in Unlocking High Performance. I start with kind of a… You know? The first couple chapters are about how did we end up with such a messed up system of work? And it was largely because in the early days, when management was created back in the late 1800s, early 1900s, when we were industrializing the Western world, we needed to get people to behave like machines for long periods of time. And so management was literally designed to get human beings to behave like machines.
To produce output. And that system of management has basically perpetuated. And so, we treat people like equipment, we treat people… You know? We manage people like we’re enforcing a contract. That is inhumane. What is humane or human is treating people as if… You know? Sort of operating with the assumption that everybody wakes up in the morning and wants to be successful, and well, and happy. Everybody has that natural motivation and capability to be successful when they are presented with the opportunity and the means to do so.
And so, our job is to recognize and treat them as unique, talented, gifted human beings with potential to be unleashed. Right? And to assume and not assume that they don’t want to, or that they can’t, or whatever. So that’s the fundamental different is really in how we show up and think about people at work.
Rob Kosberg:
That’s good. That’s really helpful. You know? I would assume, you probably know these statistics a lot better than me, but I would assume that some of this has also grown out of a need within corporations and businesses because… Well, in the past, our fathers and grandfathers worked at a company for 35 or 40 years perhaps being treated like a machine and maybe acting like that machine, but it certainly seems like more recent generations it’s more transient. Right? People aren’t staying at jobs for 35 or 40 years. I guess they’re seeking fulfillment. They’re seeking something more than just the monetary exchange. So is this an outcropping of like, “Wow, we’ve got to get our stuff together as a business because this isn’t working for this generation”?
Jason Lauritsen:
Yes, yes. And not only is it being… And actually, it’s being amplified in this moment, right? There’s the conversation about the great resignation. The pandemic actually took what you just described. And if that was kind of some embers or some sparks that were out there, and threw a bucket of gasoline on it. And now we have this fire that’s burning of people being like, “No more. I’m not doing this. I’m not okay with being treated like this.” But I think also work has changed. Right? 50, 60, 70 years ago, a lot of the means of production, the things we did is we sat and we ran machines, or we mechanically… You know? We were doing rote kind of mechanical tasks and it was based on using our muscles and using repetitive motion, whereas today we need people’s ingenuity and creativity. We live in an innovation and information economy.
And so, people are still a means to creating work product, but we’re more dependent on the innate capabilities of human beings, sort of the really messy, complicated, beautiful stuff that we didn’t want. Like before, that was a bug in the system back in the old days. Whereas today, it’s actually what we need. And so I think it’s both. People are expecting something different and work needs something different. The kind of businesses we’re in requires something different. So it’s both.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. And I had an interesting conversation with my middle son. He’s 27. He works for JPL NASA and he was asking me what I thought of this anti-work movement. We had a long conversation about that. And I know a little bit of it, probably not enough to have an inspired conversation on it, but he and I certainly had good conversation. I do believe that people are built… You know? Again, I have a anecdotal evidence of this, but I do believe that there’s a desire for us to be productive, like in an individual. I think we want to produce something. We want to do something that lasts, that gives us inspiration, et cetera. And there must be this tremendous frustration with people that are kind of throwing their hands up in the air, especially after the pandemic and are like, “Hey, I’m just going to find a way not to work at all.” You know? Are you seeing any of that in the corporations, the companies that you mentor, that you coach, et cetera?
Jason Lauritsen:
So I think what’s interesting about the anti-work movement is that I think if you dig in on that a little bit, what you find, at least I think what I’ve seen and I am no expert in that, so I don’t want to speak for them, but I think what it feels to me they’re saying isn’t necessarily anti-work, but it’s sort of anti the way we work or the way we have been working. It’s like anti being treated like I’m disposable, it’s anti not being valued, anti being mistreated, like all of those things. So I think you’re right. And I think a lot of organizations are realizing. They’re starting to wake up to the reality that people, they want to do meaningful work. But I think also underneath that is… You know? One of the challenges, and it’s a reckoning that’s starting to happen finally, is also a lot of people have been working for less than a living wage, less than…
And so, they’re showing up… They’re not only showing up being treated like a piece of machinery to produce work output, but they’re not even being paid enough to take care of their very basic, their most basic needs. And so now they’re working two jobs or they’re… And so like there’s so much about what’s happening right now, which is just a long overdue reckoning. And I think it’s really a reorientation or reinvention of work that is long… It’s needed. It’s needed. I mean, COVID’s done a lot of terrible things, but what’s happening to the workplace, in my opinion, is a really positive disruption that we’re seeing.
Rob Kosberg:
I guess it’s not anti-work. It’s anti the work that’s available. Right?
Jason Lauritsen:
That’s right.
Rob Kosberg:
In some ways. You know? Because of the pay, because of the conditions, because of the job that I’m being offered that doesn’t give me inspiration anyway, why don’t I just find something else to do?
Jason Lauritsen:
That’s right.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. Makes total sense to me. Tell me about from the standpoint of what you do and how you help and serve others. I’m sure you’ve come into some very ugly situations. I won’t ask for specifics, although that might be kind of fun to hear, but tell me what you see when you go into a company, and obviously no names, and how you go about… You know? Are there five steps? Are there things that you’re particularly looking for and diagnosing? What does that look like? How does that work?
Jason Lauritsen:
So, what I’ll tell you is that my business is… Like, one of the things that has… You know? The longer you’re in business for yourself, and I’m sure this is true for you, I think it’s true for all entrepreneurs, is that you get clear on who you’re best suited to serve. And one of the things that I’ve realized is I’m not interested in… As a practice, I’m not interested in helping fix broken companies where I just don’t have the patience to teach leaders things or people things that should be intuitively obvious to them.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. As a human being. Right.
Jason Lauritsen:
Right? This is just a bias I’ve learned. As a human I’m like… Like, I shouldn’t have to come in and tell you that it’s best practice to be kind to your people or to value them.
Rob Kosberg:
I don’t know that this is outside my scope of work.
Jason Lauritsen:
Everything I say to you is going to hurt and be offensive, so probably we should just part ways now.
And so, my clients tend to be organizations that have already kind of had the awakening. Like, they’ve realized like, “Okay, we know there’s a different way. We know that we need to retool how we work, but we don’t know how. We need help.” And then usually, my intervention today is helping retool their managers with a different mindset and a different set of skills for how they show up for their people.
So that’s generally where I’m at. So I’m kind of like a… You know? I’m more of a guide to help you find your way to the promised land once you’ve decided you want to get there. I’m not going to show up and try to convince you to go. Right? I do that in some of my writing and thought leadership, but that’s not the work that I do at an organizational level.
Rob Kosberg:
Got it. Got it. And as things are progressing, are there like key performance indicators or metrics that you’re looking at? You know? Are employees surveyed about their happiness? Or like how do we know that there’s progress being made and besides looking way down the road and seeing a happy, healthy company?
Jason Lauritsen:
Yeah sure. Well, I mean, I think there’s a balance. And this is the… You know? In my work, a lot of people that do my work I think get tilted a little bit too far out of balance towards things like just measuring sentiments or just like, “Are all of our employees happy?” It’s like, well, it’s important to have happy employees. Yeah. Sure. We want happy employees, but how are they performing as an individual? Because what we want is happy, productive employees. Right? That’s at the end of the day. So I would say when you’re thinking about metrics, there’s a balance. Like you should… A well run organization has clear metrics and measures around how do we measure, how do we manage individual, team, and organizational performance? And at the same time, we’re also measuring individual sentiment.
We’re measuring things like how people feel about the work experience. Does it align in with what they need? Are they getting the things they need to be productive? There’s measures around wellbeing. I think also generally retention is a pretty strong… That’s where the rubber meets the road often. You know? If people are sticking around or leaving that’s as sort of loud a signal you can get. But I would say there’s got to be balance. Right? You want to balance between surveys and other measures of sentiment from the employee, like how are they feeling about their job, how are they… Do they perceive that they’re getting what they need? Are they satisfied, balanced against performing? Right? Those two things have to coexist. And sometimes I think a lot of organizations are out of balance one way or the other. And when you balance both is when that’s the sweet spot.
Rob Kosberg:
That’s good. That’s good. I’m sure some business owners take a sigh of relief hearing some of that. Right? I mean, both are certainly important. You know? I guess some employees just aren’t happy people, right? Just like some managers aren’t happy people and don’t have, as the water boy would say, “the social skills” necessary to also perform their duties. Right? What is it? The Peter Principle or the Matthew Principle of… Which one is it? Being advanced beyond your level of-
Jason Lauritsen:
Yeah. Peter. I think that’s a Peter Principle.
Rob Kosberg:
Peter Principle?
Jason Lauritsen:
You sort of rise to your level of incompetence or something.
Rob Kosberg:
Incompetence. Right.
Jason Lauritsen:
Yeah, your level of incompetence.
Rob Kosberg:
I’m mixing up disciples.
Jason Lauritsen:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. That’s right. That’s right. No, I think that that’s true. I think… You know? It’s one of my pet peeves is that… And I have to be careful about how I talk about this because it’s not wrong to want your employees to be happy. Like, we want people to be happy, but at the same token, happy isn’t the outcome that we’re after solely. Like, the organization exists to perform.
Right? Because if we’re not producing the outcome that our clients need from us or that our customers want, then we have no reason to exist as an organization. Hence no jobs, no pay, no nothing. And so performance is the imperative. And so everything exists to support performance, but there are different ways to get there. And that’s the humane, inhumane differentiation. What kind of organization do you want to run? And so on some level, what I’m preaching is an ideology. And even deeper than that, it’s a moral ideology on some level. It’s like what kind of leader do you want to be? What kind of organization do you want to be? What kind of impact do you want to have on people and society and communities?
Because when work works well for people, when it’s the kind of experience I described earlier that I’m trying to create, means better people that are healthier, people that can then they take that back to their families, to their communities. It’s a ripple effect that makes the world better. Like, work can change the world when works working well, but you got to make that decision as a leader. What kind of impact are you having on people? Because you can get to performance a lot of different ways.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s good. Really, really good. Let’s switch gears for just a moment. You have two books. One seems to be more targeted than the other. Social Gravity, Unlocking High Performance. Talk to me about the differences of those two books and the similarities. I know that there are threads of similarities having to do with relationships, et cetera, but tell me about the differences of those two books; who they’re for, et cetera.
Jason Lauritsen:
Well, Social Gravity, I mean, there was a lot of years between the two books. And so, Social Gravity was conceived of and written, published clear back in 2012, I guess, early 2012. And I mean, that’s what you would describe more… It’s more of a self-help book. It’s a how-to book for people to understand why relationships matter, how they matter, and then how to build the kind of relationships and network you need to succeed in your life whatever that means to you.
And Unlocking High Performance was more of a book for organizational leaders and human resources leaders as kind of a blueprint for how to design an organizational kind of management process to unlock the potential and performance of their people in a way that felt good to people and produce results. And so the theme is relationships. Relationships is at the heart of all of my work, but they’re very different. They’re very different books. There’s 8, 9, 10 years difference between the writing of those two books. So I was a very different person and a very different professional between the two as well. And frankly, even the way that they got written, the way they got published is very different. And so they’re two very different things, but that’s who they’re for.
Rob Kosberg:
Gotcha. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but I would say your Unlocking High Performance is probably, well it’s certainly your more recent book, but it’s probably the book that is also maybe a little bit more targeted towards your ideal client and using it to grow your business. Is that accurate?
Jason Lauritsen:
Yep. That’s true.
Rob Kosberg:
Along those lines, it’s interesting how the way you just described it. I’ll tell you what I see all the time and we’ve done over 1,100 books for our clients in the last 10 years. And I have this conversation over and over and over again. Client will come to me, they want to write their first book, they always want to go broad with their first book. You know? They want to write a book to reach as big a population as possible. They want to write, great fill in the blank book. I always try to direct them. No. No, no, no. Look. That can be your second, your third or fourth, whatever. Your first book really needs to be targeted, ultra-targeted to your ideal client, using it to get what it is you want; speaking engagements, more customers, use it in a book funnel, et cetera, et cetera. Is that like, whether you got advice or not, was that kind of the experience that you went through as well in writing your first book versus your second book? Just wondering.
Jason Lauritsen:
You know? I would say that I’ve learned that lesson more broadly through my business than through my books. The book… And I know this is kind of sacrilegious probably in your business as people listen to this, but I didn’t write either of my books really to sell books. And because of that, I don’t think I made wise choices about… You know? If I were sitting down today, if you and I were sitting down to write, talk about, “Let’s write a book,” or “I’m going to write a book and you’re going to help me,” I get…
Like today, I would be like, “Okay, here’s who we’re going to write to,” because I’ve gotten that clarity in all the rest of my business, but the first book was really… Joe and I had been active young professionals. And so when we wrote that book, it was kind of a culmination of what we had learned. And we had this curiosity about what had happened and why it had happened and for us. And so we kind of wrote it. And so it’s a book that I would say is it works. It speaks to everyone, but it was really calibrated that way, but it was just sort of happened. It was just us being reflected in the book.
Unlocking High Performance is kind of my… I mean, it was basically a download of like, “Here’s everything I’ve learned,” or “Here’s the most important things I’ve learned over the last 20 years of journey doing this work.” And so it is not as narrow as it should be, but it certainly, I had in mind some sense of who it was for, but I would say that I worked with a publisher on that book and their goals weren’t as niche as they probably should have been. They could have been, but it could have been a lot more niche. I think in hindsight, if I would’ve narrowed the focus and been more specific, we probably would’ve sold a lot more books.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. It’s not heresy. In my bible, that’s canon. If you know what I mean. Like, that’s what we talk to our clients about. We’re not trying to write the next War and Peace. We’re not trying to write something that’s going to sell a million copies or maybe even a hundred thousand copies. Obviously we have clients that have done that, but ideally we’re trying to write something that if it’s sold 10,000 copies, it will be mean millions of dollars in revenue and thousands of lives impacted.
And you can always go broad. If you start broad… Well, let’s put it this way. I’ve seen this a lot with my clients. The ones that start broad never, almost never, make the kind of impact that they would’ve made had they started narrow. And it’s a shame because they just believe the opposite. And maybe if those that are listening today, because they’ve heard it from me over and over and over again, maybe hearing it from you they’ll believe it more, you know how that is, but the more narrow you can be, especially with your first book or second book, the more income and the more impact you’re really going to make. And so thank you for iterating that. That’s, I think really helpful for people.
Jason Lauritsen:
It’s true. I mean, that’s a marketing idiom, right? I mean, it is true of all marketing that the more specific you get, the more focused you are on who you serve, and the more you can speak to them directly about whatever it is they care about and are trying to solve. Like, when you see a book and you go, “Huh, that looks like it was written for me,” you’re obviously going to buy that book. And it’s so counterintuitive though. That’s one of the hardest lessons to learn as an entrepreneur, as an author, as whatever because you think the broader it is, the more people can find it, the more people can impact. And that is the complete… Like, if it’s written for everyone, then it’s speaking to no one.
Rob Kosberg:
It’s just more noise in the marketplace. The only way to cut through the noise is to address somebody really specifically. And then they take notice. They’re like, “Oh, okay. That is speaking to me. All this other stuff is speaking to everybody else, so that doesn’t apply to me.” So really good. Really good.
Talk to me about your books. We’ve gone into the pragmatism of writing a book. I always like to find out from the guests that I have, how are you using your book to get more of what it is you want; more clients, more speaking engagements, more PR and media, et cetera? And any stories around that, whether it’s Social Gravity, but probably more the recent book Unlocking High Performance, how are you using that to land more customers?
Jason Lauritsen:
Sure. Well, for me, a lot of it is… You know? I’m in the… I describe my business as a thought leadership business and so thought leadership depends on perceived or real credibility. Right? Social proof. And so if you’re listening to this as a podcast, you can’t see, but behind me on my bookshelf, I… You know? I practice full bookshelf credibility. This is one of my settings. You know? I have both of my books prominently facing behind me so that people understand, like this is a person who has written books. And for whatever reason, we all… I mean, that’s why people are listening to this. That’s why your business exists.
People assume if you’ve written a book that you must know what you’re talking about, which is not indeed true. It just means you can put a lot of words on paper, but there’s an assumption and that’s helpful. And so for me, the way that I use my book is more so… I use it probably more so as a mechanism, as social proof that I know what I’m talking about. I use it for… You know? I use it all the time. I get paid to create thought leadership constantly. And so people are always like, “Author of.” Right? And then my book is always visible in different things and it’s always we’re referencing back to it. I use it to speak, to drive speaking opportunities.
I have had people that find the book, read the book, and reach out and say, “Hey, we’d like to talk to you.” I mean, I’ve had clients that will find the book, read the book, reach out and just want to hire me to help advise them about working through a project or something like that.
Rob Kosberg:
Those are great phone calls, aren’t they?
Jason Lauritsen:
Oh my God, they’re the best. They’re the best. You’re like, “Okay. All of that, all of that blood, sweat and tears is now is paying off.”
And so, I would say that historically is how I used… What I would say, and the caveat, and this is one thing I always tell people is… And I think your business is designed to help people with this, as I understand it. We self-published our first book. So Social Gravity was self-published. Unlocking High Performance, I went through a traditional publisher route. Partly the reason I did that was because of the whole social proof thing. Right? If someone else is willing to publish your words, that’s even more valuable sometimes.
So, I wanted to do both. But what I would say is that the first book was infinitely more valuable because in that case, like I could send… You know? Like, I could buy my own books inexpensively and I could give them out. I could send them, I could gift them. I could… I used that book like crazy for years to do business development, to be generous with people, to… You know? I did that all the time because I could.
I can’t afford to use this book. Like, it costs me so much money to buy it that I can’t afford to give it away in mass. And so I can give away one or two here and there, but like, I can’t send a team 30 copies because that’s going to break the bank. You know what I mean?
Rob Kosberg:
I do.
Jason Lauritsen:
Like, I could, but I’m not going to. And so, I think it’s really, important to know what you want your book to do when you’re making decisions about how you’re going to write it, how you’re going to publish it and all of that because it has real consequences in the way that you can leverage it in your business. At least that’s been my experience.
Rob Kosberg:
No, that’s good. You know? We do a number of things for clients. One of the things that we do, maybe not as publicly is we help clients build book funnels. For my book, which is a Wall Street Journal best seller, it’s published through my company. So I own a hundred percent rights, royalties, and control. And so we run book funnels and it costs me a couple bucks to print it. And so, I can offer the book free and just pay shipping: $7.95. And in essence, I can ship it, fulfill it, and print it all for less than $7.95 because I’m not having to pay retail or an inflated wholesale number through a publisher.
And people will come to us and say, “I love your book funnel and I know what your numbers are, stats.” We’ve sold tens of thousands of books through my book funnel and millions of dollars in revenue. And they’ll say, “Can you do that?” And one of the first questions I ask is, “Who owns the rights to your book? Do you own it or does the publisher own it?” If they ever say publisher, the first question after that then is, “Okay, what does it cost for you to buy your book?” And often it’s 10, 12, 15 bucks to buy a book. And I’m like, “You know? It probably won’t work for you because it’s now become too much of a loss on the front end to print, get those books.” And so it’s, “Well said,” I guess, is that story is just leading up to.
Jason Lauritsen:
That’s right. Well, and like I said, just being clear about my motivations with… You know? I’m grateful. I’m grateful that I have this book. And part of the reason I have this book is because I was approached by a publisher. And they were soliciting books and I’d been thinking about writing another one. And so I knew going into it, I’m not going to get rich on this book. I knew all the downsides to it. But the reason I did it was twofold. I signed a contract because number one, I knew that that deadline would mean I’m actually going to get a book written because I have to, and number two, I wanted, like I said, I wanted the social proof of that imprint on my book. Other than that, there was no… I mean, self-publishing was better in every possible, single way other than those two things, and you could create your own deadlines. You don’t have to sign a contract to do that. That was just for me at the time, it made sense.
Rob Kosberg:
That is helpful though. Putting your feet to the fire is helpful.
Jason Lauritsen:
It does. It helps. Having someone do that, it does help. And it worked for me. But I think most of the time, it just doesn’t make sense because the other thing most authors learned the hard way is… My eyes were very open going into it is your publisher, depending on the situation, but most of the time your publisher is going to do nothing to market your book. So you want to sell your-
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. They expect you to.
Jason Lauritsen:
You’re going to have to sell your book and they’re going to make all the money. So just be aware that that’s what you’re getting into. I knew upfront that was the situation, but like I said, it served my purpose at the time, so I don’t regret it at all, but I wouldn’t do it again.
Rob Kosberg:
Yeah. Most traditional publishing contracts and agreements are crappy employment contracts. You’re basically getting a small check. Oftentimes, it’s a very small check. And sometimes it’s just services. We’ll edit your book et cetera in exchange for you going out there and hustling. You go out there sell it. It just sounds terrible.
Jason Lauritsen:
It’s not a great business. And I had just somebody, again, the other day I was talking, they were like… Well, they’ve been shopping their book, going the traditional route. You know? Agent, talking to publishers. And they’re like, “Well apparently, I don’t have enough Twitter followers,” or “I don’t have enough whatever.” And I’m just like… Now, they don’t really care about your… They don’t really care about the content of your book. What they care about is do look like someone who can sell enough books for them to profit off it? And it’s a marketing game. And so it’s really… You got to really want to do it for the right reasons. And you got to have people that can help you. If you’re going to use it to accelerate your business, you’ve got to be smart and you’ve got to know what you’re doing and you got to be focused.
Rob Kosberg:
Love it. Love it. Well, look. You heard this from Jason, not from me. People will say, “Well, Rob, of course you’re going to say that because that’s your business.” And I’m like, “You got me. It is.” But I’m telling you. I’m telling the truth here. So now you’ve heard it from Jason, not from me.
Jason Lauritsen:
It’s true. It’s true.
Rob Kosberg:
It’s so good.
Jason Lauritsen:
And I’m not even a client and I’m still telling you this is true.
Rob Kosberg:
I know. I love it. I love it. Jason, great. Oh, great conversation. Really appreciated the candid nature of it and the things that you shared. Where can we direct people to get your books, learn more about what you do for business owners that are watching and, or listening? Where can we send them?
Jason Lauritsen:
Sure. Well, the two best places to find me are my website, which is jasonlauritsen.com. You can find kind of all my stuff there”: management, training, the books, the speaking. Or I’m really active on LinkedIn.
So, if you can spell my last name, you’re going to find me because I’m all… Just type my name into the Googles and it’ll give you a whole bunch of ways to get a hold of me. I try to be very easy to find so that’s where you can find me.
Rob Kosberg:
Awesome. Great. Jason, thanks so much. Thanks for being on the Publish. Promote. Profit. podcast. Great to have you on, my friend.
Jason Lauritsen:
Thanks, Rob. Take care.
Rob Kosberg:
You too.
